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  1. #1
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    Default Some feedback...

    Hiya,

    I have three test installs going at the moment with some focus groups with the intention of rolling out Zimbra to replace our Squirrelmail setup. I've had some fairly good feedback from two of them with the other just getting off the ground after some teething problems and a couple of gripes which are probably more useful to share.

    1. It's been mentioned before with the general consensus being that they will be incorporated at some point so I won't dwell on this but tasks are a much missed feature in Zimbra.

    2. Documents. I realize they are in beta still but while they offer some really good opportunities, their implementation is a little akward it was felt. The notion of the "Notebook" organizational structure isn't really as intuitive as one might think, particularly to people who are used to a file and folder organizational method.

    One major question was why can you embed a spreadsheet in a document but you cannot create a document that is exclusively a spreadsheet (Such as an Excel file is).

    3. Understandably you cannot have the documents feature in the basic client but it would be good if you could at least still read them if not create them.

    4. You can't share email inboxes or folders. Or at least if you can I am utterly missing where you do this. This is a big let down as a shared sales inbox is not a possibility.

    5. Sharing of documents and calenders is messy. It was felt that if you share your calender with another user, it should just become visible in a users calender list. The whole inviting a person to view your calender concept meant that quite a few users where not even aware they had permission to view someone else's calender.

    Here is an example of what I mean. Manager A shares his calender with the "Managers" group and sends out the invitation to share the calender to the group. The other managers receive the email and add his calender.

    However after this has been done, User X, User Y and User Z get elevated to the status of managers and get put into the Managers group. However because they are not aware of Manager A's existence and vice versa, they do not get access to Managers A's calender because they never got the email and Manager A will not know to send it to them...

    The same issue applies to documents and address books.

    A much much better system would be if you have shared something with a group or individual, they see it by default the minute you share it or they become part of the group you have shared it with.

    6. There is no year view in the calender. Unhelpful if you need an overall picture or you are plotting when to take your annual leave, training days, etc.

    Overall everything else went down very well. :-)

    Keffa

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    Hiya,

    1. It's been mentioned before with the general consensus being that they will be incorporated at some point so I won't dwell on this but tasks are a much missed feature in Zimbra.
    Yep. It's comin.

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    2. Documents. I realize they are in beta still but while they offer some really good opportunities, their implementation is a little akward it was felt. The notion of the "Notebook" organizational structure isn't really as intuitive as one might think, particularly to people who are used to a file and folder organizational method.

    One major question was why can you embed a spreadsheet in a document but you cannot create a document that is exclusively a spreadsheet (Such as an Excel file is).
    Because the the document is actually HTML, just like a wiki. The spreadsheet function is independent, and we're sort of merged them.
    I think that would be an excellent feature to request. I can't make any specific promises, but it sounds like a good idea. Will you fill out a feature request?

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    3. Understandably you cannot have the documents feature in the basic client but it would be good if you could at least still read them if not create them.
    Another good idea. Feature request?

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    4. You can't share email inboxes or folders. Or at least if you can I am utterly missing where you do this. This is a big let down as a shared sales inbox is not a possibility.
    It's defenetly a possibility, just not available.
    We're working on that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    5. Sharing of documents and calenders is messy. It was felt that if you share your calender with another user, it should just become visible in a users calender list. The whole inviting a person to view your calender concept meant that quite a few users where not even aware they had permission to view someone else's calender.

    Here is an example of what I mean. Manager A shares his calender with the "Managers" group and sends out the invitation to share the calender to the group. The other managers receive the email and add his calender.

    However after this has been done, User X, User Y and User Z get elevated to the status of managers and get put into the Managers group. However because they are not aware of Manager A's existence and vice versa, they do not get access to Managers A's calender because they never got the email and Manager A will not know to send it to them...
    Why would user x, y, and z get elevated to the status of managers if they don't get an invite? Anytime someone adds a share, the receiver gets an e-mail with a notification. I'm still a little unclear on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    6. There is no year view in the calender. Unhelpful if you need an overall picture or you are plotting when to take your annual leave, training days, etc.
    Feature Enhancement.

    Quote Originally Posted by keffa View Post
    Overall everything else went down very well. :-)
    Great!

    -john

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    Quote Originally Posted by jholder View Post
    Why would user x, y, and z get elevated to the status of managers if they don't get an invite? Anytime someone adds a share, the receiver gets an e-mail with a notification. I'm still a little unclear on this.
    User X, Y and Z will have been promoted to the managers group for any reason you can think of. Such as they have been promoted from normal members of staff to managers, they are covering for some managers, etc.

    The point is that should they find the need to browse Manager A's calender, they will not be able to do so because his invitation to access his calender was sent to the Managers group before they joined and hence did not receive it. Therefore although by being part of the group they have permission to browse his calender, they can't see it.

    If of course they all knew of each other, it would be no great deal as it is merely a case of manager A sending another invitation email again, but if he didn't then it would cause problems.

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    For #2, please see bug # 12854, and vote for it.

    http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12854

    This bug asks for exactly what you are referring to, I believe. That is, the ability to actually store documents (Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, PDFs, etc.) without having to put them in a notebook page, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and requires more work on the part of the user. This is basically requesting a document sharing system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclark View Post
    For #2, please see bug # 12854, and vote for it.

    http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12854

    This bug asks for exactly what you are referring to, I believe. That is, the ability to actually store documents (Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, PDFs, etc.) without having to put them in a notebook page, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and requires more work on the part of the user. This is basically requesting a document sharing system.
    It's not exactly the same (Although that feature would be cool). It's more of a case where if you can't seem to create a Spreadsheet file. Instead you have to start a new document and embed a spreadsheet to actually create a spreadsheet document. It would be better served allowing you to create a document that is a true spreadsheet.

    Keffa

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    Default documents troubles

    Quote Originally Posted by mclark View Post
    For #2, please see bug # 12854, and vote for it.

    http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12854

    This bug asks for exactly what you are referring to, I believe. That is, the ability to actually store documents (Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, PDFs, etc.) without having to put them in a notebook page, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and requires more work on the part of the user. This is basically requesting a document sharing system.
    I had quite a bit of trouble at first to figure out how to create and store a document. I can't really find any documentation on the website or the wiki (maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I've been trying for hours), and even when I called and spoke to a sales rep, they couldn't figure it out. I believe they had to ask a technical rep person while I was on hold. This tells me that there's something critically wrong with the feature.

    So, my question is, how many votes does a bug need before it's addressed either as a bug or a feature enhancement? I would have to strongly agree with the comments that the documents feature is, in its current state, not intuitive. I am currently evaluating Zimbra to use in my organization which will have upwards of thousands of users. The document sharing is a major piece of functionality that I'm hoping to use as part of our virtual office, and right now, I would be hesitant to even use it. It seems that Zimbra has crammed document storage into their concept of Notebooks... and although (here comes the positive in this negative post) I like the possibilities of creating RTF notes, attaching documents, and sharing them... the document storage and access should be its own feature. I've been in the usability field for years and it would be a magnificent feet to move people away from the traditional folder-document approach.
    -Dan

  7. #7
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    You do realise that the Documents feature is a beta preview don't you? The priority of implementing an RFE or bugfix is dependent on many things, in simple terms popular votes is one of them and technical requirements/feasability being another - those things are reviewed and a priority is given to features/bug fixes. If you're a Network Edition customer (or trial user) you can submit a request to support that you want your details added to the bug report. The fact is, as far as I can see, there isn't one support case added to either of those bug reports indicates the level of interest.
    Last edited by phoenix; 04-20-2007 at 09:49 AM.
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    You do realise that the Documents feature is a beta preview don't you? The priority of implementing an RFE or bugfix is dependent on many things, in simple terms popular votes is one of them and technical requirements/feasability being another - those things are reviewed and a priority is given to features/bug fixes. If you're a Network Edition customer (or trial user) you can submit a request to support that you want your details added to the bug report. The fact that, as far as I can see, there isn't one support case added to either of those bug reports indicates the level of interest.
    Wow, was this meant to be sarcastic? I was giving my experience with the beta preview and simply giving my opinion to your product. I am a Network Edition trial member that is thinking of purchasing licences to Zimbra, so my needs are relative to my agenda. I WILL add a support case to the bug reports.

  9. #9
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    No, why would you think it's meant to be sarcastic. Not everyone who posts here actually realises that the Documents feature is a beta preview.

    You asked how many votes it takes to get a bug implemented, I was actually trying to give you some feedback on the process of implementing a bug/rfe into the product.

    I also realise that you're a trial NE user and, again, not every trial user realises that you can ask for a support case to be added to the bug report. The number of support cases attached to a bug report will also affect it's implementation, I was merely pointing out that there aren't any at the moment.

    If you find any of my reply unhelpful or sarcastic then I apologies, I'll let someone else answer your posts in future.

    [edit]Oh, and as you seem to be under the misapprehension that I was criticisng you for giving feedback - I wasn't. Feedback is always welcome.
    Last edited by phoenix; 04-20-2007 at 09:49 AM.
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    You do realise that the Documents feature is a beta preview don't you? The priority of implementing an RFE or bugfix is dependent on many things, in simple terms popular votes is one of them and technical requirements/feasability being another - those things are reviewed and a priority is given to features/bug fixes. If you're a Network Edition customer (or trial user) you can submit a request to support that you want your details added to the bug report. The fact is, as far as I can see, there isn't one support case added to either of those bug reports indicates the level of interest.
    We are a new NE customer. I will not be able to add a support case as I am not an administrator of the system, only an interested user. Your solution will be replacing what I currently help run (GroupWise) along with another system. I can tell you that this feature is VERY important for our users from my standpoint, because our users can do it now with GroupWise. The way I see Zimbra is that it is getting much more popular and well-known than it maybe has in the past (just my impression). I think you're going to see many more requests from people that are moving from systems such as GroupWise, who need or want certain functionality in Zimbra that the other system has. I have, for example, either voted on or started about 45 bugs dealing with critical functionality that will be lost or severely degraded in the transition from GroupWise to Zimbra. I think Zimbra looks like a great product, and I look forward to Version 5, but I also think that it could be improved to be an even better corporate collaboration system with a few added features such as an expansion of what is currently called "documents".

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