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Thread: FEECH: ZME notification/BlackBerry

  1. #1
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    Default FEECH: ZME notification/BlackBerry

    I spoke with Scott Hawkyard in sales yesterday about this, and wanted to post it here for the cogitation of mobile developer types.

    If the ZME client works out well -- and I can't eval it, because neither the Pearl nor Generic versions will run on my 7100i, damnit -- then it will probably be my preferred way to deploy Zimbra mail for my coterie of executives with Blackberries and Blackjacks, etc...

    There are two reasons for this:

    1) Blackberries are *notoriously* poor at dealing with enormous local mailstores -- my 7100 has pretty close to every message I've ever received on it still on it, over 2 years, and it takes over 12 minutes to cold-boot, and garbage collects *way* too often... and executives are notoriously poor at cleaning up their mail. So, if I can run ZME on the handheld -- which presumably acts like an IMAP client to the server-based mailstore -- then that would be good, yeah.

    2) Replies from said executive would then *also* go out via the server... hiding the fact that they were sent from the mobile, and also it's direct address, which

    3) (ok, so I lied) means that all the followup mail will *also* go through the office mailserver, and thence be searchable, etc.

    The *problem* I see here, is this:

    In order for this to work practically, I cannot assume that the client will be a) running in order to b) notify the user when new mail comes in -- I don't think there's any way to force a BB app to start on boot, and auto-restart, as would be necessary to simulate push with the client.

    So, alternatively, you need some way to send a magic SMS to the client handset that will set a notifier, and optionally launch the client. And not show up in the phone's local message list.

    Any Blackberry Experts out there?

    I'm sure there's a magic bullet way to do the push notification...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baylink View Post
    I spoke with Scott Hawkyard in sales yesterday about this, and wanted to post it here for the cogitation of mobile developer types.

    If the ZME client works out well -- and I can't eval it, because neither the Pearl nor Generic versions will run on my 7100i, damnit -- then it will probably be my preferred way to deploy Zimbra mail for my coterie of executives with Blackberries and Blackjacks, etc...

    There are two reasons for this:

    1) Blackberries are *notoriously* poor at dealing with enormous local mailstores -- my 7100 has pretty close to every message I've ever received on it still on it, over 2 years, and it takes over 12 minutes to cold-boot, and garbage collects *way* too often... and executives are notoriously poor at cleaning up their mail. So, if I can run ZME on the handheld -- which presumably acts like an IMAP client to the server-based mailstore -- then that would be good, yeah.

    2) Replies from said executive would then *also* go out via the server... hiding the fact that they were sent from the mobile, and also it's direct address, which

    3) (ok, so I lied) means that all the followup mail will *also* go through the office mailserver, and thence be searchable, etc.

    The *problem* I see here, is this:

    In order for this to work practically, I cannot assume that the client will be a) running in order to b) notify the user when new mail comes in -- I don't think there's any way to force a BB app to start on boot, and auto-restart, as would be necessary to simulate push with the client.

    So, alternatively, you need some way to send a magic SMS to the client handset that will set a notifier, and optionally launch the client. And not show up in the phone's local message list.

    Any Blackberry Experts out there?

    I'm sure there's a magic bullet way to do the push notification...
    you might want to repost this in the mobile forums. it seems that your problems are

    1) ZME client doesn't work for your phone
    2) You want the appt to "auto start" on device reboot.

    both seems like bugs/enhancements that the mobile guys can help you with.

    i don't have all the information about ZME to give you the type of response that you are probably expecting. now if this question was BES related....

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    Nope, both of those are not the point of my inquiry.


    So, alternatively, you need some way to send a magic SMS to the client handset that will set a notifier, and optionally launch the client. And not show up in the phone's local message list.

    Any Blackberry Experts out there?

    I'm sure there's a magic bullet way to do the push notification...
    that's the magic bullet, right there.

    I don't want a BES installed at all -- I have Blackberry's from 4 different carriers -- 5 if you count my personal Sextel. They're all BIS.

    I'm fine with that as long as there's a magic pill to do the notification.
    Jay R. Ashworth - ZCS 6.0.9CE/CentOS5 - St Pete FL US - Music - Blog - Photography - IANAL - IAAMA
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    No push notification yet. SMS notification with SI flag to launch application is possible, but not all devices support it, and it will require some low level app to implement.

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    Default but why not BES?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baylink View Post
    ... it will probably be my preferred way to deploy Zimbra mail for my coterie of executives with Blackberries and Blackjacks, etc...

    There are two reasons for this:

    1) Blackberries are *notoriously* poor at dealing with enormous local mailstores -- my 7100 has pretty close to every message I've ever received on it still on it, over 2 years, and it takes over 12 minutes to cold-boot, and garbage collects *way* too often... and executives are notoriously poor at cleaning up their mail. So, if I can run ZME on the handheld -- which presumably acts like an IMAP client to the server-based mailstore -- then that would be good, yeah.

    2) Replies from said executive would then *also* go out via the server... hiding the fact that they were sent from the mobile, and also it's direct address, which

    3) (ok, so I lied) means that all the followup mail will *also* go through the office mailserver, and thence be searchable, etc.
    OK, I'll bite - I dont' quite see where you state why you dont' want to use a BES server. I'm assuming they are for reasons other than stated above. I personally think they are a pain, BUT when they work, they work reasonably well (tho' my experience is with a small number of users). Mail arrives/is sent almost instantaneously, it all goes through the zimbra server (and thus is searchable, and you can set policies to only keep the most recent 30 days on the blackberries and thus avoid what you describe below. So again, I'm guessing there are other reasons. I didn't care for the ZME client personally... but what do I know, as I've moved to an iphone (and hating the battery life I get with push... but hopefully Mr. Jobs will rectify that with newly-annoucemend iphone firmware).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    OK, I'll bite - I dont' quite see where you state why you dont' want to use a BES server. I'm assuming they are for reasons other than stated above.
    Nope; all those reasons stated above: I don't want real, live mail locally delivered onto Blackberry handhelds. And that's in addition to the hassle of running a BES, and converting phones from 5 different carriers to use it, and people who already have the BIS email address for it in address books... and having to have another windows box in my machine room -- Zimbra is my key to *killing* the 2 I have now.

    I personally think they are a pain, BUT when they work, they work reasonably well (tho' my experience is with a small number of users). Mail arrives/is sent almost instantaneously, it all goes through the zimbra server (and thus is searchable),
    Huh? I wouldn't expect Z to index it unless the mail *delivered* to the Z server; passing it through to the BES, not so much; do I misunderstand the BES?

    and you can set policies to only keep the most recent 30 days on the blackberries and thus avoid what you describe below. So again, I'm guessing there are other reasons.
    Nope, really.

    I didn't care for the ZME client personally... but what do I know, as I've moved to an iphone (and hating the battery life I get with push... but hopefully Mr. Jobs will rectify that with newly-annoucemend iphone firmware).
    The mail belongs on the server, in a secure room, with climate control and backup power, etc, etc, etc where I can cut off a handset's access even to be able to read it if it goes missing. Nope, push *mail* is a pretty weak substitute for push *notification* and centralized mail, in my world.

    But I didn't come here to debate why I want it. Just to find out if I can *get* it.
    Jay R. Ashworth - ZCS 6.0.9CE/CentOS5 - St Pete FL US - Music - Blog - Photography - IANAL - IAAMA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baylink View Post
    Huh? I wouldn't expect Z to index it unless the mail *delivered* to the Z server; passing it through to the BES, not so much; do I misunderstand the BES?

    The mail belongs on the server, in a secure room, with climate control and backup power, etc, etc, etc where I can cut off a handset's access even to be able to read it if it goes missing. Nope, push *mail* is a pretty weak substitute for push *notification* and centralized mail, in my world.
    OK, not a Blackberry expert, but we've been running a small BES installation for a few years, so I have _that_ going for me Couple of things, in no particular order:

    - Yes, I think you misunderstand the BES a bit. Think of it is more of a conduit/server-sync. So, mail arrives in my Zimbra inbox, BES sees it and syncs a copy to my BB. If I reply, the reply goes _through_ Zimbra, and is part of my Sent Items... courtesy of the BES server. So if I threw away my BB, I'd still have everything that was on the BB, b/c it was synced to the Zimbra account (assuming you were syncing everything)

    - Same for anything else you are syncing... e.g. if you are syncing contacts and calendar stuff, if I create it on the BB, it gets placed on my Zimbra mailbox... it does not just exist on the BB. So the BB itself becomes less important, since all this content really exists on your Zimbra account. Get a new BB, run the Enterprise Activation on it to sync to the BES server, and you are done.

    - I dont' believe the different carriers are an issue. So, here is how the activation/registration works. On the BB, you run the Enterprise Activation, which is simply the users' email address and an activation password you set on the BES server. An email from RIM arrives in the users' Zimbra mailbox... basically some long char strings to setup the encrypted sync for the BB device and the BES server. The BES server, which monitors whatever users you have setup on it, is watching the mailbox, and when it sees this kind of email, it grabs it and uses it to setup the user. So, I guess I don't see where the carrier is relevant, as all BB devices have to use RIM if they are using any enterprise features/data... the carrier is merely providing dial-tone/signal. I'm willing to be wrong on this, but we did support two carriers... AT&T/Cingular and some Canadian carrier, but never saw a difference.

    - Yes, with the BES server, you pretty much have complete control over the actual BB devices... you can shut them down, do a remote wipe, lock it out... plus make policies to allow or disallow certain things.

    - I completely agree with the "extra Windows box" complaint, but RIM controls this/their network, and what they have is BES for Exchange, Notes, and GroupWise, running on Windows... We did have this running on a vmware image for awhile... worked fine, just a bit of a RAM hog... but then, Zimbra likes its' memory too

    HTH,
    greg

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    Ok, yeah; I didn't have quite as much of a handle on how BES worked. So I'll fall back to "several thousand dollars and another Windows box in the room", how about that? :-)

    How much *is* a BES, anyway?
    Jay R. Ashworth - ZCS 6.0.9CE/CentOS5 - St Pete FL US - Music - Blog - Photography - IANAL - IAAMA
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    Not sure - you dont' say how many users. The "Blackberry Prof. Software" says up to 30 users...

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry Professional Software
    BlackBerry Professional Software – 5 users $499 USD (MSRP)
    BlackBerry Professional Software – 10 users $849 USD (MSRP)

    Each separate CAL is $99 I believe. You can get the server and 1 free CAL from RIM to use/try out. The Enterprise Server has same price for CALs I thin, but server costs some money. And there is maint/support if you want it, but that is up to you.

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry Enterprise Server for Microsoft Exchange

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry Professional Software

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    I have between 5 and 10, and isn't it amusing that that will cost me as much as the whole 50-seat Z install.

    Thanks for the details, gnyce; I'm going to look further into the SMS-SI/WAP PUSH thing, and see if there's a way to do it that way, but I'll look into BPS, too.
    Jay R. Ashworth - ZCS 6.0.9CE/CentOS5 - St Pete FL US - Music - Blog - Photography - IANAL - IAAMA
    Try to Ask Questions The Smart Way -- you'll get better answers.

    Put your product and version in your profile/signature - All opinions strictly my own, even though I have an employer these days.
    If you [SOLVE] something, please tell everyone how for the archives
    And, please... read what people write, and answer the questions they asked, not the ones they didn't.

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