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Thread: H*ll has indeed frozen over...

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Thatcher, AZ
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    Angry H*ll has indeed frozen over...

    < sandbox>
    This is totally off topic, but I think the little "Zimbra Employee" tag gives me the ok to post it. Primarily, I wanted to spark a discussion on this topic.

    Those who've worked with me, and many forum users know that I am a huge Apple fanboy. I have an iPhone, 2 Macs, and an appletv.

    A few minutes ago, I made a purchase of a PC laptop which I will begin to use as my primary machine. I almost wept as I hit the "buy it now" button on eBay.

    Mac vs PC is an discussion that has been going on for over 2 decades now. Even when I couldn't afford a Mac and got a PC in High School, I still advocated macs.

    My reasons are pretty simple, and make a lot of sense.

    Although Macs are built upon the POSIX complaint BSD, unless you're running a server, I would argue that there isn't a truly compelling reason to have a mac other than the "coolness factor".

    As far as operating system functionality, I think most would agree that OS X is far ahead of Windows. With core imaging, and Quartz Extreme, the UI is really unriviled. Vista is a near meltdown for Microsoft due to slowness, unreliability, and malware/virus'.

    I have always had this philosophy: Microsoft really isn't good at inventing things. Anytime they invent something from the ground up, it's almost always a disaster for them. I can't think of a single product that they didn't copy the idea from.

    Xerox -> Windows
    Xbox ->nintendo
    Zune -> iPod
    MS word -> Word perfect
    MS excel -> Lotus 123
    NT kernel -> Unix Kernel with protective memory and threading
    IIS -> Apache
    MSN Messenger -> AOL IM

    Innovation is something that Microsoft is terrible about, and the area that Apple excels at. Apple copied Xerox, I'll give the MS fanboys that bone... but most of what they do is ground breaking. I still remember when S Jobs came back to Apple, he launched the iMac. I remember thinking: This is going to be a disaster...who in the world would want a computer without a floppy dirve.

    People even flamed the ipod when it came out, but time after time, Apple proves that by "thinking different", they can excel in anything.

    Steve Jobs has a video on youtube.
    YouTube - Steve Jobs and Steve Ballmer
    He is so right.

    But now that Apple has dug itself out of the Hole it was in in the 90's and has become one of the largest media companies on the planet, I think they're losing sight of the things that saved them.

    I belive that they're imbracing the idea of being closed and and 1984'ish. Between the App store, hardware lockdowns, and inability to provide choice, I think they're following MS down the road of "You don't need to choose. We make the software, use it the way we want you to."

    This is really driving me crazy. Their refusal to emabrace newer technologies (ie blue ray) and locking down their stuff has made me feel boxed. I can't ever just build my mac the way I want it. They build it, and I have to choose from what they think I want. I have to use iTunes for my music and iPhone syncing.

    No blue ray.
    No copy paste on the iPhone.
    No iPhone bluetooth sync.
    Mamoth inventories of Hardware that just don't work on a mac. no Flash on the iPhone.
    No Slingbox/true video streaming player on the iPhone.
    Safari only on the iPhone (no other browser).
    Developer NDA.

    It's all just driving me away from Apple. Sure, they've always controlled hardware...but the only big issue was price....and those using macs were okay with it. You pay for quality.

    But now, times have changed. They are do dominent in Music and Mobile phones along with other hardware, that they've lost sight of giving people choice. It's ironic because Apple is the "other choice".

    It's driving me nuts. I get an awesome looking computer with sub-par applications, and an ecosystem that's so void of choice that it makes me feel like switching to a PC for more options.

    So, farewell my loyal Macbook. I'll still use you as a server to test stuff. It's not you, it's me. Being cool looking just isn't enough for me anymore....and I've found someone better.

    Sure, she might be ugly...but it's what's inside that counts. Looks aren't everything.

    Feel free to comment!!!

    </ sandbox>

    (Disclaimer, my views are not represenative of Yahoo, Zimbra or any one else except me.)

  2. #2
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    Nov 2006
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    Switch to Ubuntu Jaunty and let all your troubles fade away

  3. #3
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    Mar 2006
    Beaucaire, France
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    Quote Originally Posted by jholder View Post
    I almost wept as I hit the "buy it now" button on eBay.
    Which OS do you run on it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by uxbod View Post
    Switch to Ubuntu Jaunty and let all your troubles fade away
    The day there's a "VMware infrastructure client", a working "Dell DRAC console" or a "XenCenter" running flawlessly under Linux (or even better FreeBSD), my laptop will run this.
    Right now, I'm stuck with Vista/Seven (I tried OS X on my Mini9 but the lack of previously named software got me to switch to Seven).
    Last edited by Klug; 05-28-2009 at 04:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2008
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    So, just out of curiosity, did you also replace your iPhone? It sounds like your biggest problem was with the closed nature of the iPhone platform.. 5 of the 7 items in your list directly mention issues with the iPhone.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2008
    Berkeley, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by y@w View Post
    So, just out of curiosity, did you also replace your iPhone? It sounds like your biggest problem was with the closed nature of the iPhone platform.. 5 of the 7 items in your list directly mention issues with the iPhone.
    Good point. Unless you're just trying to punish Apple for locking down the iPhone, I don't see the point of switching from Mac to Windows. The Mac platform itself is very open. E.g. Apple doesn't sell Blu-Ray hardware, but you can connect one to the Mac. Want to write Mac software? Nothing's stopping you, and, unless I'm mistaken, for a lot of stuff you can share large chunks of code with other *nixes.

    Most important, Apple has strongly embraced open standards for networking. And although they could be stronger supporters of open document formats (e.g. by supporting ODF in iWork), they don't exactly stand in the way of running OpenOffice on a Mac.

    IMO the real problem with owning a Mac is the one that's almost always been there: the handful of "essential" applications that vendors don't bother to develop in Mac versions, and which often use proprietary data formats. E.g., Macs are in a funny position in the architecture industry since, for all the love Macs get (and deserve) from designers, AutoDesk will not make a Mac version of AutoCAD. Whenever I visit the architecture school at Cal, I see tons of Macs running Windows. SAS (a statistical package with a dominant position in the social sciences) hasn't updated its Mac offering since Classic.

    Now, I don't fully understand why Apple doesn't go on an evangelism/outreach program to, first, identify the key "application blockers" in various fields/industries that keep people from even considering the Mac, and second, cooperate with developers (forging alliances) to get them ported--or failing that, cross-promote the hell out of competing products that do work on the Mac. To an extent I suppose this is what Apple has been doing with their one-two punch of iPhone 2.0/Snow Leopard support for Exchange. (Although Microsoft provided Entourage for Mac, it's arguably just a tool to keep Mac users in the MS camp long enough to get them to switch to Windows/Outlook.)

    So maybe Apple is starting with the biggest blocker--communications for workers who just engage in the core office activities--and they'll start following up on more specialized applications later. But even so this isn't Apple's "fault". It's a product of Microsoft's building a monopoly in the 90's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klug
    Which OS do you run on it now?
    Indeed, if you're looking for totally open, are you going to switch to Linux?
    Last edited by ewilen; 06-21-2009 at 01:57 AM.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2007
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    Default I understand completely, but...

    ...for our company, the advantages of the Mac outweigh the closed/proprietary practices of Apple.

    On the mobile side, I have to support the BBs on Zimbra here, but in my testing the iPhone using ActiveSync is the most reliable/functional mobile Zimbra client.

    In the end I hope this philosophy doesn't feed back into Zimbra somehow, Apple products make pretty good peers on the Zimbra side of things. I sense though that it is getting easier to be anti-Apple, and they could really stand to lose some of that arrogance and foster a tiny bit more goodwill.
    Version 6.0.16_GA_2998.NETWORK Apr 4, 2012 MACOSXx86
    Xserve 2x Dual Core Xeons 10GB with Xserve RAID

  7. #7
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    May 2008
    Sierra Vista, Az
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    it is funny, my predecessor was all about macs, and when I got his office I had to use his imac. I had never used a mac before so I used parallels desktop on it to run xp all the time and refused to even touch mac os x. Then, after about a year windows ran an update and xp wouldn't start at all. After fooling with it for about 20 minutes I decided I ought to learn the mac. It was wierd at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I would leave it on for months at a time and it would never flake out on me and I convinced my boss to purchase me a macbook and love it. She bought a pretty beefed up dell laptop at the time and it has given her problems and I tell her she should've gotten a macbook. I hope she never reads this, she would probably flip her wig.

  8. #8
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    Mar 2006
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    I think Apple stuff is superb, and it is the most locked down environment you can possibly use so I indeed see your point. So why not take your juicy seksy Mac hardware and build a superb Linux box that will let you play your way...Hey that sounds like a great Linux slogan.

    Windows is NOT the answer, their licensing is going to get worse before it gets better.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Default No question about it...

    IT vendors can truly leave you high and dry and do things you think are wrong. :-)

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