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Thread: ZCS 7.2 release - more "removed" than added

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    Default ZCS 7.2 release - more "removed" than added

    Sure, adding SMIME is neat, but it took quite awhile to implement, certainly longer than originally communicated. But reading through the 7.2 release notes, I saw more features being removed than added - and it just doesn't give a (positive) feel for where VMware is taking the product. For example:

    - IM server is being removed. I've seen the arguments, but regardless, that is a feature that many have used/still use.

    - Posix/Samba extensions being removed, to the zimlet gallery for "support by the community". To be fair, I have not seen much in the way of engagement with the 'community' recently (at least before you would see some wiki articles, announcements, and what seemed like a more public airing in bugzilla). So is this feature - which we use - to die on the vine as soon as ZCS 8 is released?

    - ZDesktop is going to be EOL'd in a future release... "The technology choices to provide offline access to Zimbra have expanded since the release of Zimbra Desktop 1.0". Really? What exactly are technology choices? Because for non-Outlook users, Zimbra Desktop actually does a pretty good job.

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    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    Sure, adding SMIME is neat, but it took quite awhile to implement, certainly longer than originally communicated. But reading through the 7.2 release notes, I saw more features being removed than added - and it just doesn't give a (positive) feel for where VMware is taking the product. For example:

    - IM server is being removed. I've seen the arguments, but regardless, that is a feature that many have used/still use.
    That has been on the cards (and in previous Release Notes & bugzilla) for quite a while, it's also not being removed until ZCS 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    - Posix/Samba extensions being removed, to the zimlet gallery for "support by the community". To be fair, I have not seen much in the way of engagement with the 'community' recently (at least before you would see some wiki articles, announcements, and what seemed like a more public airing in bugzilla). So is this feature - which we use - to die on the vine as soon as ZCS 8 is released?
    This has always been a Community Supported feature, the only changes is that the zimlets will only be provided via the Gallery.

    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    - ZDesktop is going to be EOL'd in a future release... "The technology choices to provide offline access to Zimbra have expanded since the release of Zimbra Desktop 1.0". Really? What exactly are technology choices?
    I would guess some of the other mail clients that exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    Because for non-Outlook users, Zimbra Desktop actually does a pretty good job.
    I agree but I guess the resources used for ZD are better spent on the core product(s).
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    I would guess some of the other mail clients that exist.
    There are none, phoenix. ZD was unique in that sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but seems to me it is the only offline client that shares most of the code with web client and provides seamless user experience.

    Zimbra is going to throw away a very useful promotion tool. Sigh.

    Well, at least it's fully open-sourced. But it will be quite difficult for small-scale VARs to collaborate to support it as a community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    I would guess some of the other mail clients that exist.

    I agree but I guess the resources used for ZD are better spent on the core product(s).
    Bill, you encouraged many times to use ZDesktop as a replacement for mail clients.

    ZDesktop EOL.. another vmware poor choice regarding FOSS...

    ccelis

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    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccelis5215 View Post
    Bill, you encouraged many times to use ZDesktop as a replacement for mail clients.
    What is your point in making that comment?
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    What is your point in making that comment?
    None, my apolologies. You spend a lot of time taking care of this forum.

    Just a comment from a very fustrated one

    ccelis
    Last edited by ccelis5215; 04-18-2012 at 04:39 AM. Reason: more apologies!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post

    This has always been a Community Supported feature, the only changes is that the zimlets will only be provided via the Gallery.
    With respect to the Samba/Posix extensions... I'm not certain that is a completely accurate statement, to say they've "always" been a Community Supported feature. They were included in the zimlet-admin-extras folder, I think they were written by Zimbra employees, and the instructions for deploying/implementing on the Wiki is "certified documentation and is protected for editing by Zimbra Employees & Moderators only". We have used them for several years, continue to do so, and without them, I'm not certain that we will move forward with anything past 7.1.x.

    And there are now reports of the zimlets not working on the recently released ZCS 7.2. Which brings me again to my point, that to say that they are 'community-supported' but with little recent evidence of community engagement by Zimbra gives me little hope of this continuing to be a viable option. I will gladly hope that I am proven wrong, but fear for the worst

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    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnyce View Post
    With respect to the Samba/Posix extensions... I'm not certain that is a completely accurate statement, to say they've "always" been a Community Supported feature. They were included in the zimlet-admin-extras folder, I think they were written by Zimbra employees, and the instructions for deploying/implementing on the Wiki is "certified documentation and is protected for editing by Zimbra Employees & Moderators only".
    It certainly is an accurate statement, the zimlets were provided by Zimbra and their implementation is in a Zimbra Certified wiki page (as you've already mentioned) but support for them has always been provided by the Community. There was never any support for those Zimlets via official Zimbra Support channels, if you don't believe my comment that they're Community supported then read the description in the bug report.
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    It certainly is an accurate statement, the zimlets were provided by Zimbra and their implementation is in a Zimbra Certified wiki page (as you've already mentioned) but support for them has always been provided by the Community. There was never any support for those Zimlets via official Zimbra Support channels, if you don't believe my comment that they're Community supported then read the description in the bug report.
    OK, I accept that. So to parse what Zimbra means by "support"... if Zimbra still plans to make appropriate changes to the code (and update in the Gallery), say to accommodate LDAP or structural changes to the ZCS codebase, but provides on an "as-is" basis and any support for implementation is from community/forums (caveat emptor), I believe I can live with that - and indeed, sounds like it is not any different from before.

    But "support" might also mean 'we are no longer going to maintain this zimlet/write any of the code', which would indeed be a new change

    Do you know which might be the more accurate way to describe it?
    _____________

    Read the bug report, comment 4 - https://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=73304 I think that is my answer, "no longer maintained".
    Last edited by gnyce; 04-23-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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    I am very close to submitting a bug report along the lines of "Breakdown in communication between Zimbra and it's paying customers ".

    I think that there would be quite a few people sign up for it, I know I would if someone else submitted one.

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