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Thread: Laundry list for ZDT 7.1.4 GA (build 11299) as of 2012-06-13

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    Default Laundry list for ZDT 7.1.4 GA (build 11299) as of 2012-06-13

    I have found that email software is one of the least sophisticated programs extant, hardly improved since CompServe and Netscape Messenger, in fact, many of their features have been lost in the dumbing down of emial software "clients" over the years.

    Where does Zimbra DeskTop stand as it tries to go beyond "mere" email -- has Zimbra DeskTop negleted "mere" email in trying to do to many other things, so none of Zimbra DeskTop's email features are done well, and none of Zimbra DeskTop's overall features are market-leading let alone market-defining?

    I expect each new software I try to be smarter and easier than the last software I tried; here are some initial observations at my frustrations and chagrin at Zimbra DeskTop 7.1.4 GA (build 11299) as of 2012-06-13:

    1 - Make the web support forums as multi-paneled as the Zimbra DeskTop so we can keep a list of threads on one side of the screen while reading the contents of each thread on the other side of the screen -- otherwise, scanning, searching, and selecting for existing problems and resolutions is arduous and much too iterative if I have to open multiple screens over and over trying to browse other people's solutions.

    2 - Make Zimbra DeskTop folder contents number count default to [ xxx ] total count instead of ( xx ) unread count, and give us a way to control this. I can't see if my folders are synchronizing, which I could do if it showed the total contents count. Instead I have to click on each folder over and over, only to be told "... no results found ...". It's nice that Zimbra DeskTop (and Yahoo web mail) lets us hover over the folder name and it pops up a total count, but until Zimbra DeskTop synchronizes ... that count in Zimbra DeskTop is incomplete -- so, perhaps add "... synchronizing with host not completed, count not accurate ..." would help AND let us know that Zimbra DeskTop is trying to complete our expected tasks. I have no idea if Zimbra DeskTop is working on syncronizing folders, so ...

    3 - Make a [ Sync ] control so we can force synchronizing and watch and keep track of synchronizing success --make synchronizing a fine-tuneable activity with an indicator showing progress.

    4 - Import / Export PST files to aid migration from "the competition" -- also incorporate Import / Export files for Netscape Messenger and it's offspring ... on down to Thunderbird ... we have archives going back to the 1980s that we'd like to bring back on-line and make available for searching, sorting, and selecting.

    5 - Add a [ Copy / Backup / Update All to Local Folders ] feature so we can bring a copy of our cloud data local in order to build and maintain our own archive.

    6 - Allow us to load ALL "conversations" when marking them, moving them, controlling them -- 50 at a time on screen is arduous, and I have tens of thousands of "conversations" to go ... argh!

    7 - Allow us to right-click anywhere and control the thing we are pointing to, such as right-clicking the top-bar or side-slider on "conservation" display windows and allwoing us a [ Shown / Load ALL ] control.

    8 - When I hit [ Ctrl ] [ End ] while pointing to a list, I expect to go to the end of the list, not the ned of the current display -- again, only 50 displayed emails (you call them "conversations", an abberant, inappropriate, and inaccurate term) does not a folder make. When I ask to go to the end, take me there, even if you have to put up a message, [ ... please wait, synchroniging ... 50, 100, 150, ... ] and so on until [ ... 3,016 ... done... ] or whateveer (I have a folder with 134,000 or more emails, and I do not expect to manually force synchrinizing and display by dragging the slider one 50-email screen at a time!), auto loading until YOU finish the work I have requested -- Zimbra DeskTop isn't much of a program if I have to do all the work!

    9 - I have a we folder with 3,164 items, ZDT FINALLY shows 3,111 items (close!), yet the ZDT display window of the contents stops at 2,232 items and will not allow me to scroll any more -- should I tank ZDT and move on or can we work something out? Please, give me hope for my folder with 134,000 items in it! ... and finally, it won't let me change the entire contents to [ unread ] even though there are many [ read ] items I want to reset ...

    10 - Every time I re-sort a displayed folder, it reverts back to [ 100 conversations ], loosing all my hard work forcing it to load and synchronize the folder's more-than-100 items. Seriously?

    I'll stop at 10, I have better things to do. Let me know when some of these issues cross you rprogrammer's assignment event horizons! Thanks for what looks like a wonderful program otherwise so far -- I appreciate that you want to steer it to VMWare cloud management, not Yahoo email from whence you bought it -- I can only hope and wait for it's email savvy to become more sophisticaed.

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    11 - When Zimbra DeskTop is open, it locks the web mail server from updating via any browser client anywhere, meaning that we have to close Zimbra DeskTop in order to then control our web mail as we usually do via a browser. This also means that if we leave Zimbra DeskTop open, and leave the office, for example, then we cannot control our own web mail from elsewhere until we get back to the Zimbra DeskTop and close it. This is totally unlike any other web mail client where we can open and control our web mail from as many computer screens and open browsers as we wish: one perpetually open at the office, other browsers opened and closed on our traveling laptop, another browser open at the library or hotel or a friend's or associate's computer on demand, without closing any other web browser access to the same web mail host.

    Zimbra DeskTop is looking less and less mature:

    -- NRFPTY ... not ready for prime time yet ... pronounced "nerf-putty", and means about the same.

    I may not pursue Zimbra DeskTop any more -- too many unintended consequences of naive design.

    Too bad -- Zimbra DeskTop shows promise, but to my experience, it should be labeled v0.something, beta, not v7.something!

    If any developers in-house want to explore this, let me know, otherwise, I'll leave you to toy with Zimbra DeskTop as an in-house corporate locked-down VMWare front-end where employees who use it never have any reason to check in out-house, so to speak, such as at government agencies where in-house access is the only permitted access.

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    I've been using Zimbra Desktop for a while and am sticking with it.

    It's true that, compared to some traditional offline clients, there is much sophisticated functionality missing, for example when it comes to templating or multi-language support (content-wise).
    On the other hand, there are many pros, too, like the groupware functionality, one user interface for all, zimlets integrating today's web services.

    I think of the original poster's comments to be kind of a rant. He didn't have a close enough look at the software, and obviously misunderstood some of the concepts. Some points are good input though! Here are my comments:

    1) The support forum has nothing to do with the software.

    2) Making the counter configurable is good input IMO, but I disagree with the rest. ZD does keep on indicating that a sync is going on!

    3) This does already exist via the Refresh/Get Mail button.

    4) The best way of doing migrations from really old software is using an IMAP server IMO. PST is no standard, so who needs export?

    5) This is the use case ZD is meant for After a Sync, the data is located both on the local machine as well as the server. ZD does furthermore provide a backup solution.

    6) This is configurable.

    7) I didn't understand that point, so no comment.

    8) Good input IMO, but the behaviour should be configurable. There are good reasons for the current behaviour, too.

    9) I guess this is something due to the sync process not having ended yet.

    10) Sounds valid at first, but think about it again. Sorting is always done on the complete list, so why should only the currently displayed items appear after resorting? If you want that, open a search.

    11) That's definitely not true.
    However, I can think of a constellation in which the described behaviour will appear from time to time. Some really old mail servers are using an old mailbox format, which required them to synchronize access at the file system level. So while some mail client was fetching mail, no other mail client would have been able to fetch mail at the same time (and yes, web mail is a mail client, too).
    But that hasn't got to do anything with ZD.

    Regards
    Florian

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    Thanks for your exploration and sharing, Florianh,

    ... but we apparently have different pre-existing email situations. I'm glad yours works in the ZDT environment; mine and my client's do not.

    I have hundreds of thousands of emails in Yahoo Web Mail, and ZDT only brings in a few at a time, never brings in all, or even tries to bring in all.

    Even when left overnight with the sync spinner spinning, no new emails were added when checked the next day.

    Every time I forced it to show me a page down, the page down took forever to download and display, and then the page up got lost and had to re-download from the web when I hit page up.

    The things you said are configurable SHOULD be configurable simply by right-clicking on whatever it is I am pointing at anywhere on the ZDT screen, and a menu should pop up offering [ Preferences ] among other controls FOR THE THING I AM POINTING AT.

    I found nothing in the all-purpose configurations that might address my challenge in the opening post above.

    No one has read my opening post, and reported that they have success using Yahoo Web Mail with thousands of emails, and they got it to work, that is, they got it to download local every single frickin' email from their Yahoo Web Mail account, by doing ... what?

    The reason to export to PST is so that current Outlook folks have a safety fear-remover should they agree to drop Outlook for a while to give ZDT a "try" -- if they can't go back to Outlook and bring their emails with them, they will never take the first step to even try ZDT, and I can't recommend that any Outlook user switch to ZDT until there is a safety backup way to take their ZDT work with them back to Outlook.

    I believe the reason Yahoo sold ZDT off was because the ZDT programmers hit a brick wall trying to optimize it for Yahoo Web Mail, so it was essentially useless to Yahoo Web Mail, that's where it's at today ... pressed into service for other things, no further work on compatibility and control with Yahoo Web Mail.

    So, I find that:

    - ZDT is inappropriate for Yahoo Web Mail clients (270 million users, some of them are professionals who PAY for the service, some of them are my clients!), and

    - ZDT is inappropriate for Outlook users -- these are the rest of my clients!

    HELP!

    Does ANYONE have resolutions to my failed experiences with ZDT regarding Yahoo Web Mail and Outlook PDT import export?

    Thanks in advance,

    Peter Blaise

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    Hi Peter,

    indeed my mail base isn't that huge as yours, it's several folders containing 10s of thousands of mails "only". With these sizes, I didn't face any problems with Zimbra and IMAP servers though. Maybe you have to have a closer look at what is going on underneath - could be JVM memory, slow internet connection, whatever. The advantage here is: it's open source, so you can really break things down to a line of code. Of course, this requires both knowledge and time.

    ZD is for free and this forum is mainly driven by its community. So, it's hard to compare it to Outlook and its support by Microsoft directly IMO. After all, I'm pretty sure you will have to pay for deeper migration work in the Outlook/Exchange sector, too.

    Regards
    Florian

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