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Thread: Highly disappointed

  1. #1
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    Angry Highly disappointed

    I used to have RoundCube on my servers and then I saw in a forum a suggestion to use Zimbra, from their web site the application looks, open-source, etc...

    Man...What a dissapointment...Why on earth using Java? It's such a bad and heavy technology! I mean, come on, 1GB minimum requirement for RAM memory? 5GB HDD space? Oh, and it took a whole afternoon to have the beast to work on a CentOS server. Installation is very difficult and time-consuming compared to RoundCube. Why offering an open-source version if it's so difficult and badly documented that most people will be daunted and will use the commercial version? I don't know... There's something wrong. Why choosing such complicated technologies when you offer only additional features compared to RoundCube? I thing PHP 5 with an accelerator, or maybe mod_python2 would definately have been the way to go. Installing a php application is so easy, fast, and php applications run so fast, they need very little RAM... Also PHP development would have cost less money to Zimbra.

    Zimbra also, from a user standpoint is cluttered... Too many graphics to load. I was also disappointed to see that Zimbra blocks Opera, my default browser (that works just fine with Gmail and RoundCube). I'll stop here. I'm fed up, I lost my time, I was expecting a whole lot more

    Sorry if I got mad, but I think the Zimbra team needs to know customer feedback.

  2. #2
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    Default Sorry that Zimbra's not for you...

    Zimbra's not a web front end for an IMAP server. It's a full collaboration suite, including both front ends and a fully indexed backend store for mail, calendaring, contacts, wiki, instant messaging, and more. Doing that in PHP is difficult, to put it mildly.

    Even if you'd had a seamless install like most people using CentOS, I'm not sure that the Zimbra suite would have dovetailed with your needs. RoundCube is a very nice AJAX-y frontend to an IMAP server, and if that's all you need it's a very good solution.
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  3. #3
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    Thank you, actually it's easier to create a webmail with calendaring, contacts, wiki, and instant messaging in PHP. The only thing you wouldn't have been able to do is indexing in real time as Zimbra seems to do.

  4. #4
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    Default Let us know what you find!

    Please let us know of the best open-source PHP-based collaboration suite you can find! We're always eager to learn from the featuresets and novel ideas of other open-source products.

    You could probably do SOAP and REST interfaces to such a server pretty easily. JSON would also be doable, as I think there's a JSON parser for PHP. DAV interfaces probably wouldn't work, and IMAP, POP, and XMPP would probably be impossible for such a server. I'm also not sure how one could do mail delivery from an MTA into a PHP-based server.
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  5. #5
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    Yes, I agree, but in this case, Python/C++ would have been better and lighter than Java.

  6. #6
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    Talking I am a very happy customer

    There is no comparison between Roundcube and Zimbra. One is a Email client and the other is a enterprise-ready collaboration suite (Email, Shared Calendars, LDAP, Wiki, Admin UI, backup/restore, mobile support). Compare the feature list for yourself. Zimbra is a very rich, all-in-one application suite.

    I am a very happy customer. And *my* customers that use Zimbra are also happy.

    One of the biggest pluses with Zimbra is that you can register and track bugs AND these bugs are actioned. Sure it would be great if they were closed quicker, but the fact that we can now provide direct feedback on the product and see the results of that feedback is very empowering for customers.

    If you want to compare Zimbra with another product then look at Scalix.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielperez
    I used to have RoundCube on my servers and then I saw in a forum a suggestion to use Zimbra, from their web site the application looks, open-source, etc...

    Man...What a dissapointment...Why on earth using Java? It's such a bad and heavy technology! I mean, come on, 1GB minimum requirement for RAM memory? 5GB HDD space? Oh, and it took a whole afternoon to have the beast to work on a CentOS server. Installation is very difficult and time-consuming compared to RoundCube. Why offering an open-source version if it's so difficult and badly documented that most people will be daunted and will use the commercial version? I don't know... There's something wrong. Why choosing such complicated technologies when you offer only additional features compared to RoundCube? I thing PHP 5 with an accelerator, or maybe mod_python2 would definately have been the way to go. Installing a php application is so easy, fast, and php applications run so fast, they need very little RAM... Also PHP development would have cost less money to Zimbra.

    Zimbra also, from a user standpoint is cluttered... Too many graphics to load. I was also disappointed to see that Zimbra blocks Opera, my default browser (that works just fine with Gmail and RoundCube). I'll stop here. I'm fed up, I lost my time, I was expecting a whole lot more

    Sorry if I got mad, but I think the Zimbra team needs to know customer feedback.

  7. #7
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    Talking Perhaps!

    You may be right, but the Zimbra server's performance is pretty good. The current bottleneck is disk I/O, mainly due to the database, and that would be the constraining factor regardless of whether we were using python, C++, or PHP to access the database and filesystem.

    We chose to go with straight Javascript/AJAX instead of PHP for the front end and Java instead of any one of a number of other languages for the backend. The resulting app is pretty performant and pretty cool, and you're welcome to wander through the source to see how we solved some of the tough issues involved in making your data easily searchable and available in as many ways as possible. Had we gone with a different language for the front or back end, the logic (and the performance) would probably have been comparable, though the variable names might have changed.

    If you're in need of a collaboration suite, why not ask a few install questions on this forum and take Zimbra for a spin? Judging from the download numbers, thousands of people have installed the software on CentOS or compatibles, and I'd bet that someone here can answer your questions.
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  8. #8
    phoenix is offline Zimbra Consultant & Moderator
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danielperez
    Sorry if I got mad, but I think the Zimbra team needs to know customer feedback.
    You are, of course, quite welcome to voice your opinion about the product in these forums but I'm a bit confused as to what it is you're disappointed about? Actual performance? Actual features? Anything tangible rather than your opinion of the programming behind the product?

    Are you actually a 'customer' or just have some theoretical differences on product design? Have you tried the product?
    Regards


    Bill


    Acompli: A new adventure for Co-Founder KevinH.

  9. #9
    dijichi2 is offline OpenSource Builder & Moderator
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    Default

    danielperez, i hear what you're saying but php/python are wholly unsuitable for heavy client/server interaction such as this due to the interpreted/non-stateful nature of them. if you've ever tried to write really big apps using php, even accelerated, you come to appreciated just how phenomenally slow it is.

    i think zimbra are spending a lot of time extending features and functionality that people are screaming for, and they'll get it working faster later on when they have time, I suspect. certainly basic functions are far slower than C-based opensource equivalents such as cyrus, courier etc, however they have a fraction of the functionality that zimbra already has. i do think that some well targeted profiling would help the perception of zimbra a lot, i get a lot of complaints about it's speed and there are numerous posts on the forums about it, not just the web interface but the command line as well.

    hardware requirements for java do seem to be big, but hardware is dirt cheap these days, and java is used very widely as a backend for big enterprise these days, just peek into the inner workings of banks, jboss houses etc.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Well I gotta say Zimbra is piss easy to install and setup way way better then Scalix or Exchange.

    Before I went with Zimbra I tested Scalix and didn't like it at all or it's pricing. I am currently in the midst of decommissioning our exchange servers over our 4 sites and bring them all back to Zimbra.

    The Zimbra web frontend is better then OWA and with the outlook connector my management team get the full outlook experience without the IT dept having the headache that is exchange.

    The very first thing i fell in love with about Zimbra was how simple it was to install and move the message store to our SAN.

    Infact installing Zimbra on CentOS requires you to only modify 1 file and meet the deps which is a breeze using yum.

    When I decided to buy Zimbra the sales rep I spoke to (Jovi) was great, got me the answers I wanted in a very prompt manner and Zimbra as a whole came to the party on pricing for my mixed enviroment of Premium users, standard users, and mobile for my reps with their windows mobile 5 handsets.

    whats more when it came to upgrading from the OSS version to the Network version I simply ran the script and 10 minutes later it was all done.

    Probably the best mail implementation I have ever seen, and I've been installing mail servers ever since I started playing with linux in '96.

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