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Thread: First impressions

  1. #1
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    Default First impressions

    Hi guys,

    I'm importing a few GB of mail into a zimbra account, trying to configure things (filters etc.) as I want them, as the mail is dropping in... Here's my observations so far:

    Installed on a plain Centos 4, using mozilla-firefox on Linux as the client.

    Bug:
    When editing filters, the filter editing dialog will forget settings, *sometimes*. For example, I specified a filter rule with 5 different conditions, some begin "From" "Contains", others being "Subject" "Contains" - with an action saying "File in folder". Now, I've just chosen "edit" for that rule, and while all the conditions are still correct, the action was changed to "Keep in INBOX". Other times it is the conditions that change - for example, once all conditions changed from "Subject" to "From", and from "Contains" to "Is". (grr... this is very annoying, it's biting me a lot right now - can't get a very simple rule to work because one of the fields is constantly being set to something other than what I chose)

    Usability:
    Not being able to use the keyboard for navigation (especially nice shortcuts like "next unread mail", "previous unread mail" etc.) is really a pain. I understand from other forum posts that you're working on that (?) If not, then at least a way to go to the last page of messages in a folder would be highly appreciated...

    Usability:
    When adding conditions to filter rules, it would be nice if the '+' button added a new condition line which was an exact copy of the previous line (with same settings and field contents) - frequently I find that I'm adding many similar lines, this would make it quicker and simpler.

    Usability:
    When changing a condition type (from "From" to "Subject" for example), please don't clear the entry box - if I want to change a rule from matching on "Subject" to matching on "From", I have to copy the match text, change the dropdown box, and paste the match text into the now empty entry box. That is a little silly IMO.

    Feature request:
    It would be very nice to be able to 're-run' all filters. Or run all filters on a given folder. For example, if I create a new rule to tag all e-mails containing a specific word, I'd like to have that tag applied to all my existing mails, not just all new ones... Or am I misunderstanding how tags were intended to be used?

    Feature request:
    In the search builder, for "Basic Search", I want to search for all e-mail mentioning "postfix". The problem is, all my mail has the word postfix in the headers - I want to search the message body only. I can't find a way to do that.

    I'm wondering, will you be releasing more snapshots of Zimbra? Is there a way to get development code (cvs access etc.)?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Hi guys,

    I'm importing a few GB of mail into a zimbra account, trying to configure things (filters etc.) as I want them, as the mail is dropping in... Here's my observations so far:

    Installed on a plain Centos 4, using mozilla-firefox on Linux as the client.

    Bug:
    When editing filters, the filter editing dialog will forget settings, *sometimes*. For example, I specified a filter rule with 5 different conditions, some begin "From" "Contains", others being "Subject" "Contains" - with an action saying "File in folder". Now, I've just chosen "edit" for that rule, and while all the conditions are still correct, the action was changed to "Keep in INBOX". Other times it is the conditions that change - for example, once all conditions changed from "Subject" to "From", and from "Contains" to "Is". (grr... this is very annoying, it's biting me a lot right now - can't get a very simple rule to work because one of the fields is constantly being set to something other than what I chose)
    Yes the filter UI has some bugs. We are working on fixing this for the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Usability:
    Not being able to use the keyboard for navigation (especially nice shortcuts like "next unread mail", "previous unread mail" etc.) is really a pain. I understand from other forum posts that you're working on that (?) If not, then at least a way to go to the last page of messages in a folder would be highly appreciated...
    This also has been noted before as you said. It's high on our list since most of us devs also enjoy keeping our fingers on the keyboard. Just too many things we want to get in so this continues to slip though.

    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Usability:
    When adding conditions to filter rules, it would be nice if the '+' button added a new condition line which was an exact copy of the previous line (with same settings and field contents) - frequently I find that I'm adding many similar lines, this would make it quicker and simpler.
    I'll put this in as an enhancement (4219). Maybe we have two options. One to copy and one to start a new blank condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Usability:
    When changing a condition type (from "From" to "Subject" for example), please don't clear the entry box - if I want to change a rule from matching on "Subject" to matching on "From", I have to copy the match text, change the dropdown box, and paste the match text into the now empty entry box. That is a little silly IMO.
    This one I don't really agree with. Seems to me if your matching on subject it won't be the same text if you'd match on from. Is it really that common that you'd search for the same thing in a subject or the from?

    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Feature request:
    It would be very nice to be able to 're-run' all filters. Or run all filters on a given folder. For example, if I create a new rule to tag all e-mails containing a specific word, I'd like to have that tag applied to all my existing mails, not just all new ones... Or am I misunderstanding how tags were intended to be used?
    Kinda on the fence here. It should be just as easy to do a search on the text your looking for then select all those items and tag them as a group. Then your filter would grab the new ones. Since our search is so easy doesn't seem like we would really need a re-run filter. If you've got a use case that this doesn't cover let us know.

    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    Feature request:
    In the search builder, for "Basic Search", I want to search for all e-mail mentioning "postfix". The problem is, all my mail has the word postfix in the headers - I want to search the message body only. I can't find a way to do that.
    Our mail also has postfix in all the headers. Just use the 'Content' box in basic search. If you use the search bar it's:

    Code:
    content:(postfix)
    or if you want to include the Subject/From too:
    Code:
    postfix
    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    I'm wondering, will you be releasing more snapshots of Zimbra? Is there a way to get development code (cvs access etc.)?
    Of course! We will be putting out new releases all the time as we get in new features etc. We also will release an anon CVS so you can get the latest bits or check for a recent change.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    Kinda on the fence here. It should be just as easy to do a search on the text your looking for then select all those items and tag them as a group. Then your filter would grab the new ones. Since our search is so easy doesn't seem like we would really need a re-run filter. If you've got a use case that this doesn't cover let us know.
    If you move an existing mailbox over and need to recreate filters and reapply them, it could be quite painful to have to do the search manually each time (plus it's a good way to test if your filter works!).

    --Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by billm
    If you move an existing mailbox over and need to recreate filters and reapply them, it could be quite painful to have to do the search manually each time (plus it's a good way to test if your filter works!).

    --Bill

    What server are you migrating from that already has tags? My guess is you don't have tags in your current server. You simply have filters that moved messages to a folder. So in Zimbra all you need to do is save that search as a search folder and it's automatically ran each time you select the search folder. So one step better than filters and follows along our belief at Zimbra that mailboxes should be self-organizing.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    What server are you migrating from that already has tags? My guess is you don't have tags in your current server. You simply have filters that moved messages to a folder. So in Zimbra all you need to do is save that search as a search folder and it's automatically ran each time you select the search folder. So one step better than filters and follows along our belief at Zimbra that mailboxes should be self-organizing.
    Actually, I didn't say tags...I'm not a heavy user of them in Zimbra personally (it's not often I need to cross classify something - that's what search is for!). Interesting concept though (the self-organizing mailbox). I'm not quite sure why you'd need folders, tags, AND saved searches though - it seems to me that tags and folders are really the same thing (just a different way of accessing/placing mail). And searches are really just tags with a selection criteria - just auto-tag based on the search. New searches then would only need to search against stuff w/out that tag.

    --Bill

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    Yes normal folders are a thing of the past. This is the first time I've ever tried to work with email and not use any folders. All my mail is in my INBOX. I never delete except to empty my junk folder if I get spam. I've got over 10,000 emails in my INBOX and can manage my mail faster than I ever had before. Just a few search folders to de-prioritize maillist traffic and re-prioritize email coming from non-zimbra domain higher so I get back to external folks quickly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinH
    Yes normal folders are a thing of the past. This is the first time I've ever tried to work with email and not use any folders. All my mail is in my INBOX. I never delete except to empty my junk folder if I get spam. I've got over 10,000 emails in my INBOX and can manage my mail faster than I ever had before. Just a few search folders to de-prioritize maillist traffic and re-prioritize email coming from non-zimbra domain higher so I get back to external folks quickly.
    But still, tags and folder placement are "static". Eg. you assign a tag to a mail, or you place a mail in a folder. If I change my rules (to catch a mail that slipped thru my configured rules before), I'd like to select a folder and re-run the filters. For example, a mail that I wanted in my "Support" folder might still be in the INBOX because I overlooked something when writing the filter rules - I then fix my filter rules and in order to test them I want to re-run the filter rules on the INBOX.

    Of course, the filter UI bug made this a lot more needed than it would usually have been, but still I think it is a very useful feature

    About the general usage; would you recommend that we don't use folders? So we just set up searches (sort of "virtual folders")?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oestergaard
    But still, tags and folder placement are "static". Eg. you assign a tag to a mail, or you place a mail in a folder. If I change my rules (to catch a mail that slipped thru my configured rules before), I'd like to select a folder and re-run the filters. For example, a mail that I wanted in my "Support" folder might still be in the INBOX because I overlooked something when writing the filter rules - I then fix my filter rules and in order to test them I want to re-run the filter rules on the INBOX.

    Of course, the filter UI bug made this a lot more needed than it would usually have been, but still I think it is a very useful feature

    About the general usage; would you recommend that we don't use folders? So we just set up searches (sort of "virtual folders")?
    A couple folks here inside Zimbra also agree with you that there should at the very least be a test filter option to make sure your rule is working. We'll put in an enhancement for that.

    Everybody is different. I personally think Virtual folders (aka search folders) are so powerful that you don't need static folders any longer. Just have found it to work well for me. I'm sure others disagree.

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    Default "Virtual Folders"

    I haven't had time to bulk load and try this myself, but seeing the user above commenting about having 10,000 email in his inbox... If I had all my mail in one folder (including long term mailing lists, etc.) I'm at least an order of magnitude larger... 200,000+ email archived.

    Are saved searches going to be practical (speed wise)?

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