bundle installation

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17532denis
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:10 pm

bundle installation

Postby 17532denis » Tue May 16, 2006 5:04 am

hi,

i'm not understanding why zimbra is a big package

containing openldap, postfix, ecc...

it's a good solution when i've to install from scratch,

but if i've already a tested situations, with a lot of users

and i want to use zimbra, i can't...

i've already got postfix, openldap, ecc... start and running,

they are bug-free (debian stable) and are configured ad hoc.
Is it possible to install zimbra in an unbundle way? i've to

setup file separately?
i think that an unbundle installation would be appreciated

by a lot of sysadmin that already have a similar situation...
thank you


jholder
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bundle installation

Postby jholder » Tue May 16, 2006 9:46 pm

Well, simplicity is one of the major draws for ZCS.
I'm sure your a computer guy. I am too. I just don't have time to sit down and find dependencies, and make sure I have everything working. I just want to install it.
That's one of the basic draws of macs and windows vs linux. Linux can be cumbersome, and not easy for the novice to pick up on.
Zimbra is very self maintaining with logs and cron jobs. With all of the packages bundled together, the zcs team can make sure that everything just works.
17532denis
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:10 pm

bundle installation

Postby 17532denis » Wed May 17, 2006 2:01 am

[quote]Well, simplicity is one of the major draws for ZCS.
I'm sure your a computer guy. I am too. I just don't have time to sit down and find dependencies, and make sure I have everything working. I just want to install it.

[/QUOTE]
When i've to try it yes! sure! in fact to test zimbra, i've download vmware

image....

but when i've to put something in production i can spend some times to

resolve dependencies, and to setup all software, not just "clickety, clickety,

next, next, finish".... i want to know what i've setup on my machine... ;)
[QUOTE]

That's one of the basic draws of macs and windows vs linux. Linux can be cumbersome, and not easy for the novice to pick up on.
Zimbra is very self maintaining with logs and cron jobs. With all of the packages bundled together, the zcs team can make sure that everything just works.[/QUOTE]
i appreciate your good work! but, without being offensive, i think that you are working a lot on zimbra, and i think that you haven't a lot of time to see if a software have some security bugs... also if you update to every new version

you aren't sure to resolve bugs, instead you can add something...

for this reason (i'm a sysadmin :) ) i think that you can use external package such postfix and openldap distributed in another way (see debian stable), so you haven't to worry about security fixes, and you have a stable situation...
don't misinterpret me, the bundle installation is a good think in some situation (what you describe in you post, i agree to you), but when i've to setup it in a mission-critical situation it can be a bad think :)
at the end: i'm testing a lot your zimbra, i've a little experience in debian package, ecc... if you give me some information i could try to make another type of installation, based on external package... so this my reqest don't take your time ;)
thank you a lot!
and sorry for my poor english but i'm italian
6629ezajko
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:00 pm

bundle installation

Postby 6629ezajko » Wed May 17, 2006 3:34 am

[quote user="17532denis"]

...and i want to use zimbra, i can't...

[/QUOTE]
Then don't use it - it is easy as that. There are other solutions that can do same thing (you can make your own if you think nothing is good for you), but please stop asking questions that has been answered so many times at this forum.
I think zimbra is great product that is worth of accepting some drawbacks (that, I hope, will be implemented/fixed in the future)...
marcmac
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bundle installation

Postby marcmac » Wed May 17, 2006 7:27 am

Remember, folks, Zimbra is a mail server that happens to come with an incredible client - so don't look at it as a simple webmail front end to an existing IMAP server. That's called squirrelmail, and we didn't see the need to re-invent it.
17532denis
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:10 pm

bundle installation

Postby 17532denis » Wed May 17, 2006 8:36 am

[quote user="6629ezajko"]I think zimbra is great product that is worth of accepting some drawbacks (that, I hope, will be implemented/fixed in the future)...[/QUOTE]
if you reply in this way you aren't good in reading..

have you read my post?

what you don't uderstand when i proposed my help to do a thing?

you say "(that, I hope, will be implemented/fixed in the future)", and so, why future can't be now??! i say that i can work on this if i've some feedback...

but, maybe, you don't need normal-people help......
phoenix
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bundle installation

Postby phoenix » Wed May 17, 2006 8:55 am

I think it does no good to start arguing about what's been said. You've had comments about why Zimbra is designed the way it is and it won't be 'unbundled' to separate packages, at least not in my opinion.
Zimbra is meant to be installed as a complete package (search the forums if yoy want to find out why) and to replace the products you have installed, it's a relatively trivial matter for a sysadmin of your experience to do that, surely?
Don't forget that ZImbra are here to make a profit not just provide us with open source 'free' software and if they can do that by bundling the products together they will because it will reuce their support effort and costs and be attractive to many people. As Marcmac has already said, Zimbra is more than just a pretty front end to those products.
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
17532denis
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:10 pm

bundle installation

Postby 17532denis » Wed May 17, 2006 10:51 am

[quote user="10330phoenix"]
Zimbra is meant to be installed as a complete package (search the forums if yoy want to find out why) and to replace the products you have installed, it's a relatively trivial matter for a sysadmin of your experience to do that, surely?[/QUOTE]
infact, for a good sysadmin install a bundle package without having total control of their program (see bugs) is simplest... but if something is simple

you can't be sure that this thing can be security-issue-free....
[quote user="10330phoenix"]

Don't forget that ZImbra are here to make a profit not just provide us with open source 'free' software and if they can do that by bundling the products together they will because it will reuce their support effort and costs and be attractive to many people. As Marcmac has already said, Zimbra is more than just a pretty front end to those products.[/QUOTE]
i can accept this, this is a very good reply...you're right, you've to make profit and so you sell a bundle package, if i've problem i've to ask you (and pay), true! i can't accept the reply from other user: "zimbra is bundle, if you don't accept it start another project!"
thank you for your reply!
phoenix
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bundle installation

Postby phoenix » Wed May 17, 2006 11:04 am

[quote user="17532denis"]infact, for a good sysadmin install a bundle package without having total control of their program (see bugs) is simplest... but if something is simple

you can't be sure that this thing can be security-issue-free....[/QUOTE]

Well, although the products as well as Zimbra are all open source and will suffer from the same problems as any other pice of software as far as bugs/security issues. In the future the response to any problems will become easier to implement as Zimbra will introduce 'patch' type releases rather than a complete download (I think this has been mentioned in the forums) but that is some way off. Zimbra is as secure as each individual product and here in the forums is the best place to highlight any bugs/security problems there may be - certainly for the open source version.
[quote user="17532denis"]i can accept this, this is a very good reply...you're right, you've to make profit and so you sell a bundle package, if i've problem i've to ask you (and pay), true! i can't accept the reply from other user: "zimbra is bundle, if you don't accept it start another project!"[/QUOTE]

If you're on the Network Version then direct support from Zimbra comes with the package you buy but the OSS version support is here in the forums with a LOT of help from the Zimbra team. Considering this is free software you only have to look at how many post the Zimbra team answer to see what an amazing bunch of guys they are and how responsive they've been. :)
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
10119metux
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bundle installation

Postby 10119metux » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:52 pm

Hi folks,
just digging out an ancient topic, as it's still as valid as it has been in 2006.

Please also see my comments in a similar thread:

----http://www.zimbra.com/forums/users/127-fat-distribution-decision-2.html#post328830
----
>

[quote user="10330phoenix"]

In the future the response to any problems will become easier to implement as Zimbra will introduce 'patch' type releases rather than a complete download (I think this has been mentioned in the forums) but that is some way off.

[/QUOTE]
Well, if that 'patching' ends up in similar as we know from the M$ world - dozens of 'service packs'

which need to be applied in the correct order (and probably only big ones for the whole product

instead of package), that would the totally wrong way. Instead, split it off into smaller packages,

which can be updated individually, and provide package repos (for the individual supported distros)

where operators can run the upgrades the usual distro's ways. (eg. apt-get upgrade).

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