local mail getting marked as spam?

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bjquinn
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby bjquinn » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:15 am

Ok I did a little homework, and I get what the SMTP Sumbission port is, what it's for, I've got some links on how to enable it, etc.
Does anyone actually know if using port 587 or maybe port 465 gets around the problem of Zimbra still trying to process the spam rules?


mdeneen
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby mdeneen » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:18 am

I have not tested this with 5.0 yet, but with 4.5.6 authenticated SSL smtp on 465 did not skip the spam checking. Maybe someone else has more info on 587, but I do not think it will be any different.
Mark
bjquinn
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby bjquinn » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:45 am

I'm sure you're right. Since it doesn't appear to me that port 587 is even officially supported by Zimbra (I don't think there's any Zimbra command line or administrator option to turn it on, I believe it's a Postfix setting only), I doubt they would have specifically addressed an issue by having us change a setting they didn't even expect us to use.
Seems to me this is a fairly serious issue. Anyone who travels and doesn't use the Zimbra web client or a VPN would have this problem. Seems like it would be easy enough for a spammer to use my domain or even valid email addresses on my domain as sender addresses, I can't quite justify whitelisting the whole domain. Surely there's some other way to fix this?
bjquinn
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby bjquinn » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:32 pm

This seems like a problem that would affect a lot of people. Should I file a bug for this or something?
dwmtractor
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby dwmtractor » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:14 pm

I think you guys are partly on the wrong track. If you look at the headers of the message that the OP submitted, he must be correctly authenticated already as the only "received" headers are from the internal IP and localhost. But he's getting dinged in Pyzor and SORBS, which both check on IP address. I'm betting that either his real domain (whatever myserver.com obfuscates) or else the internal 192.168.1.x range have landed in the blacklisters, so that other people "out there" who use the same blacklists would also have his email flagged. That's the first thing I would check based on the scores I am seeing.
dwmtractor
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby dwmtractor » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:16 pm

[quote user="jholder"]Marking them as not spam should train SA to ignore that.[/quote]

Not gonna accomplish much since he's already getting a BAYES_05 score which is fairly strongly "not spam." Unless he increases the negative score for BAYES_05 and BAYES_00, it'll not be strong enough to counteract the high positive scores from SORBS and PYZOR
mdeneen
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby mdeneen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:09 pm

What I would like is for mail delivered via an authenticated connection to skip the spam check completely.
[quote user="dwmtractor"]I think you guys are partly on the wrong track. If you look at the headers of the message that the OP submitted, he must be correctly authenticated already as the only "received" headers are from the internal IP and localhost. But he's getting dinged in Pyzor and SORBS, which both check on IP address. I'm betting that either his real domain (whatever myserver.com obfuscates) or else the internal 192.168.1.x range have landed in the blacklisters, so that other people "out there" who use the same blacklists would also have his email flagged. That's the first thing I would check based on the scores I am seeing.[/QUOTE]
dwmtractor
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby dwmtractor » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:39 pm

[quote user="mdeneen"]What I would like is for mail delivered via an authenticated connection to skip the spam check completely.[/quote]

I understand why you would say this (and it's worth filing an RFE) but I'm not sure I agree. If there is something broken with my IPs (maybe my ISP) or my config that gets my messages tagged as spam (for other people) I'd want to know it. . .
Seems to me that in this case, whitelisting only sidesteps whatever other problem is causing the messages to be flagged
mdeneen
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby mdeneen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:31 am

[quote user="dwmtractor"]I understand why you would say this (and it's worth filing an RFE) but I'm not sure I agree. If there is something broken with my IPs (maybe my ISP) or my config that gets my messages tagged as spam (for other people) I'd want to know it. . .
Seems to me that in this case, whitelisting only sidesteps whatever other problem is causing the messages to be flagged[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'll give you this and revise my original statement.
I would like mail sent via an authenticated SMTP connection TO a local account to skip the spam filters. Doesn't it feel wrong when the results from logwatch sent from servers on the local network end up in the junk mail folder?
dwmtractor
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local mail getting marked as spam?

Postby dwmtractor » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:07 pm

[quote user="mdeneen"]Ok, I'll give you this and revise my original statement.
I would like mail sent via an authenticated SMTP connection TO a local account to skip the spam filters. Doesn't it feel wrong when the results from logwatch sent from servers on the local network end up in the junk mail folder?[/quote]

Perhaps, and that is why I said it would be perfectly reasonable to file an RFE (if you don't want to do so yourself, I'll be happy to try to translate it appropriately to a bugzilla request), however, I would definitely want it to be a switchable option. Here's why:
Let's say you're sending messages to customers but they don't get through, because your IP (or IP range due to a sloppy ISP) has landed in somebody's public blocklist. How are you going to know that something is wrong? Your customers may not know you sent something that didn't come thru, unless you call them to verify, which sort of makes email redundant. On the other hand, if you find that email from yourself to yourself is getting caught in your own spam filters, it gives you a "heads up" that you need to research and determine why you're sitting on somebody's blacklist. You can take the necessary steps to remedy the situation, and your own system will monitor whether you've succeeded or failed.
Failing that, you're left to wait for some customer to be upset because you never sent him/her that promised email, in order to discover that you have an issue at all. To my way of thinking that's not the ideal way to do the job. . .

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