Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

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tgx
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Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby tgx » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:27 pm

All,


I am presently testing Zimbra 8.6. We have held off on updating our 7.2.1 server as we did not like the direction Zimbra was heading with the acquisitions, mergers.


I have been disappointed in my tests thus far (webmail AJAX) with a couple of problems that are sure to cause a raft of help desk inquiries and I am wondering if the lost functionality can be restored.


1) Opening a "new" anything results in losing the folder navigation frame on the left. Often when something is composed it may be based on other related/unrelated materials. Being able to browse the folders quickly and have it background the message is now a 2 step process. I have to click back on Mail just to view my folder navigation tree. Surely this is not as intended? The inefficiency is incrementally bad when propagated across all the different places where this occurs. It's just bad.


2) Why would you remove the full date/timestamp from the preview mode? Mar 14 is meaningless beyond the day. What year? What time did it arrive? Just looking from the main email window I don't get the time or full date. Clicking on preview I also don't get the full date/time just a regurgitation of what is in the main email window. Mar 14. How can I get the timestamp to view without opening the email in full window (also breaking my mail navigation) separately? Again, I see someone that doesn't actually work in business with time sensitive materials designed the interface.


I cannot in good conscience recommend this version (8.6) for use unless there are workarounds for these issues.


Thanks.



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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby quanah » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Generally I'd suggest filing bugs for both issues in the zimba Bugzilla.
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby ppearl » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:41 pm

Regarding #2, I believe that is covered under https://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=95730 and is marked as fixed in 8.6.0 Patch2. Have you patch your 8.6 install to use the latest 8.6 patch?
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cdamon
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby cdamon » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:47 pm

Composing in a separate tab was added a long time ago: https://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9585

That was ZCS6. I'm assume the main "New" something is a new message. I'm pretty sure though not positive that we never showed the overview in the compose tab. Before we went to tabs, you'd have to save a draft if you wanted to go back and view a folder or a message (unless you went to the trouble of opening relevant messages in new windows). Being able to have more than one tab per app was seen as an advantage as you wouldn't have to lose context. I think it's more efficient if you're referring to messages, but less so if you're viewing the overview looking for visible changes such as a change in unread count.
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby tgx » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:22 pm

First, kudos for the new forum. Much more useable and will hopefully bring back the community feel we lost during the Telligent acquisition.
Second. Wow! Actual Zimbra Employee's responding. Impressive. I've been using ZImbra in production since version 3 and cannot recall ever seeing
a Zimbra employee in the forum. I am sure you guys have been through living hell with all the acquisitions but I like the track you are on now. I hope it
is as good on the devops side for you.

Back to the questions.

Not a big fan of Bugzilla, if you look through I suspect you'll find some bug reports from 2005 I submitted that were never addressed. For me it's a black
hole where all good ideas go to die. Maybe that will change now. I dunno.

I am attaching two screens. One is the old format (v7.2.x) when compose is open.
old.jpg
old.jpg (235.49 KiB) Viewed 1380 times


The second is the new (v8.6.x). You can clearly see how the navigation tree at left
is ommitted with the compose window open in the new format.
new.jpg
new.jpg (206.2 KiB) Viewed 1380 times


(The 8.6 screen is a representation since my current 8.6 test instance is not running but it is an accurate portrayal of the issue.)
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cdamon
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby cdamon » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:06 am

Ah, I guess there was a release or two where we still showed the overview in a compose tab. For an explanation of why it was removed, read the first few comments here:

https://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=76509
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby tonster » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:47 am

Hey, that's my bug! :)

For what it's worth, I agree that it's annoying, though I also understand why Josh made the change. As for employees replying, that's actually not so new to the zimbra forums. :) Quanah and I have participated for a long time (at least before we switched to Zimbra Social, we did), and many others have as well. Certainly since the switch back to phpBB (well, we ran vBulletin before, but phpBB is basically the same), we're certainly trying to make more of an effort to get back involved in the forums! As far as Bugzilla, please do file bugs for things, and feel free to post in the forums when you do to make us aware of issues that are important to you. There is only so much that we can do and understand, as developers, in the way people use the product. Everyone uses Zimbra (and email in general) in different ways, and often times you find that there are things we think people want or ways people do things that are just completely different from reality. The only way to know that is for people to file a bug and make us aware of it, and make a post in the forums and let us know. The forums help, because it can start a discussion and get input from others who feel the same way (or don't!) and let us know how important or popular the change will be. It can also help to let us know whether the change needs to be one that needs a preference or not, as we do try not to clutter the preferences tab with too much stuff when it's not necessary.

Thanks for posting! We're glad to have fans, and it's always nice to see people who've used Zimbra for longer than you have! :) You've got me beat...I've only been using it since 4.5.
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby mnichols » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:21 pm

One of the approaches you can take for item 1 is to change your preference to "Always Compose in a new window". This creates a new window and allows the folder structure to remain in the background...
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tgx
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby tgx » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:15 pm

Thanks for the replies all. I know I can run compose in a new window but that is such an anachronism to go back to what is essentially a pop-up window. Not being able to see the mini calendar or navigate folders just doesn't make much sense. The thread you linked to sounds like a usability hero that doesn't understand workflow. Reflecting 'just what is related to the tab' is silly since the frame on the right IS the tab, it has nothing to do with the folder tree. All I know is I cannot deploy 8.x like this, my users will cry bloody murder and frankly I'm not going to listen to it. So I guess I'll sit on 7.2.7 for the time being and wait for the next latest and greatest interface design. Would really like to see this remedied though. Can't we get a preference clicky somewhere to restore the previous frame design?

As for Bugzilla, I went and checked and there are bug/enhancement requests that I made back during ZImbra 5 (circa 2008) that are still listed as 'New". I have 7 status Assigned (not likely) and two Unconfirmed so you can see why my confidence in getting anything accomplished via Bugzilla is near zero.
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Re: Zimbra 8.6 restoring feature loss

Postby tgx » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:52 pm

Looking through my bug reports it does seem as if some of my ideas were put into place.
Bug 21528 should be closed as the basic idea is in use in 7.2.7.

21527 made use of adding the dropdown next to new, but did not address the MRU function.

One outstanding bug from 2010 was commented on again by someone else in 2012 looking for the same feature.
Bug #50912

As you can see I've even gone through the trouble to mockup screens to reflect the ideas but still nothing gets looked at.

Bug 77508 can be closed as well since it was addressed.

It's just a bit frustrating since you can see how these bug/ref reports don't get closed or even really looked at.

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