Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

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preese
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby preese » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:17 pm

I routinely use multiple systems to read and manage IMAP email. When I read and clean up email on one system and then move to another system, those changes follow me.
With Zimbra, when I use IMAP on the account, my inbox email and clean ups aren't reflected in the Zimbra web mail view of my email.
This seems wrong. What if I file the email from the web UI into different folders then when I sorted email with IMAP, are two copies of the message created? What about all the messages I deleted in IMAP but are still there in the web UI.
As it stands now, the difference between IMAP and the web UI is like reading POP mail from two different systems, and we all know that is why we moved to IMAP in the first place!
Any comments?
Phil


andreychek
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby andreychek » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:52 pm

[quote user="preese"]With Zimbra, when I use IMAP on the account, my inbox email and clean ups aren't reflected in the Zimbra web mail view of my email. [/QUOTE]

Mmm... I'd say that the behaviour you're seeing isn't correct :-)
I personally use Mutt+IMAP frequently against the Zimbra backend, then go in later and view the web interface without any problems.
I also run a hosting service where we have folks who switch between a number of different IMAP clients, then back to Zimbra.
The only time I see what you're referring to is if the IMAP client hasn't saved the data yet. For example, in mutt, my deletes don't take affect until after I hit the 'x' key. So, maybe your client isn't saving the data immediatly?
But, if you're pretty sure the IMAP client is working correctly, and Zimbra isn't handling it right, it may be a bug... I'd file a bug report in the Zimbra bugzilla, along with the steps they can take to reproduce it, as well as what IMAP clients you use.
Good luck!

-Eric
preese
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby preese » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:22 pm

Eric,
Good suggestion and I can confirm that is what is happening. When I close Thunderbird, Zimbra updates appropriately.
As I often leave an IMAP client open at home and one in the office and sometimes check things via a laptop along the way, this behavior is a problem.
I'll file a bug report.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Phil
andreychek
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby andreychek » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:29 pm

[quote user="preese"]Good suggestion and I can confirm that is what is happening. When I close Thunderbird, Zimbra updates appropriately.
As I often leave an IMAP client open at home and one in the office and sometimes check things via a laptop along the way, this behavior is a problem.
I'll file a bug report.[/QUOTE]

Hey Phil,
It's cool that you found it!
The problem you're going to run into is that, for this sort of problem... there isn't actually anything the IMAP server can do to help out. It sounds like Thunderbird isn't ever telling Zimbra about the updates to the inbox... and until it does, Zimbra can't display the data you want, it simply doesn't have the information (in other words, even if you file a bug report, there isn't going to be anything the Zimbra folks can do, since it's the client that isn't sending the info).
I'd bet that there's a way to force an update in Thunderbird, though I don't have an instance here I can try on. Perhaps an explicit "Send/Receive"?
My buddy tells me that's how he solves similar issues in Kmail, perhaps Thunderbird would work in a similar way.
Have a good one,

-Eric
dijichi2
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby dijichi2 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:31 am

this is a contraversial one. depending on how you look at it, thunderbird and the other similar behaving clients are doing the correct thing. in imap, a move is actually a copy+delete. and as imap has no concept of a 'trash folder', a delete is a message flag. so what happens when you file a message into a folder is that it is copied into the new folder, and marked as deleted from the old. when your client exits, it then 'expunges' all messages marked as deleted - this is the default behaviour from thunderbird i think. you can change it in thunderbird by going to Tools, Account Settings, , Server Settings.
personally, and I don't think i'm alone on this one, I think it's crazy that the zimbra ui doesn't show this up in some way - it causes absolute chaos when people are sharing an inbox (as does happen in lots of corporate environments) using a mishmash of different clients, and is the primary reason one company i have who pay for the product never use the web interface except to set vacation messages.
read the existing bug argu-thread here:

http://bugzilla.zimbra.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2712
sdether
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby sdether » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:54 pm

You are not alone on this. I just discovered this behavior and it's driving me crazy already. I switched my organization to zimbra this weekend and as I was dealing with the migration, i noticed the "sync" issue.
I followed the bugzilla thread you referenced and was dismayed to find that there was no consensus in respecting the imap behavior which is respected by virtually every client (web and desktop) under the sun. I routinely move from Mail.app on Mac to Thunderbird to web interface and not usually quiting a session inbetween. For example, I may be working on my desktop and then get called into a meeting and bring my laptop. IMAP has always allowed my clients to stay in sync. But now with the zimbra web client that behavior is broken. I switched to zimbra because of its fantastic web client, but this behavior means i can't use imap and zimbra clients.
Please, please, respect the deleted flag in the web client. Add an option to hide flagged messages, if you thing this is too confusing for normal users, but trust me, for IMAP users, not seeing their deleted messages flagged is much more confusing.
thanks.
hkgonra
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby hkgonra » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:59 pm

I still don't understand why IMAP doesn't send deleted items to a deleted items folder.
dkarp
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby dkarp » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:49 pm

[quote user="hkgonra"]I still don't understand why IMAP doesn't send deleted items to a deleted items folder.[/QUOTE]

Don't let Mark Crispin hear you say that!
dijichi2
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby dijichi2 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:31 pm

haha. thankyou very much zimbra for listening and fixing this bug!!!
dijichi2
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Using IMAP and the Zimbra Interface

Postby dijichi2 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:32 pm

sorry, i meant odd imap behaviour, not bug, honest.

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