upgrade to 30m1

[rmvg]

Had a really nice post ready for u but fedora blew up and i am force to rewite everthing F^%king Fedora.
Perl is not in the path F^%king Fedora doent that seem wierd anyways i got the scripts to run. Apon reinstall however i keep getting access denied errors for admin or user logins.
I changed a few things during reinstall host name from canmail.org to mx1.canmail.org and http from mixed to
did">https
did a hostname mx1.canmail.org but it did not stick after a reboot where do i set hostname in fedora?
/etc/host looks ok
# Do not remove the following line, or various programs

# that require network functionality will fail.

127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost

68.146.204.153 mx1.canmail.org mx1


zimbra status only give ip and not list of services like expected
/var/log/zimbra shows this is there a decent editor in fedora call me a looser but i do not like vi and gedit works like crap from a terminal as u can tell i am really pissed a fedora right now would love to send u the snip of /var/log/zimba but the only thing i can get to work is tail and cannot remeber how to get more than 10 lines plus i am late for work having to retype this whole message


Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: STARTING ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: start service ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: start app ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: Starting child ldap: (20050923075532)

Sep 23 07:59:03 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: STARTING services

Sep 23 07:59:03 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: Doing startup

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4933]: 4933:info: Zimbra Monitor startup: 4933

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4933]: 4933:info: Process 21572 not found - removing /opt/zimbra/zimbramon/FIFO/zm.pid

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4953]: 4953:info: Status monitor startup

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4954]: 4954:info: Creating soap server on port 7777

[marcmac]

[quote user="rmvg"]
I changed a few things during reinstall host name from canmail.org to mx1.canmail.org and http from mixed to
did">https
did a hostname mx1.canmail.org but it did not stick after a reboot where do i set hostname in fedora?

[/QUOTE]

/etc/sysconfig/network

[quote user="rmvg"]

/etc/host looks ok
# Do not remove the following line, or various programs

# that require network functionality will fail.

127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost

68.146.204.153 mx1.canmail.org mx1


zimbra status only give ip and not list of services like expected

[/QUOTE]

That usually means that the ldap instance is not quite right.
To get the status, what we do is:

determine server hostname (zmlocalconfig zimbra_server_hostname)

Determine installed services (zmprov gs | grep zimbraServiceEnabled)
So - make sure that zmprov gas lists all the servers, and that zmprov gs has the services (mailbox, ldap, mta, etc) listed under zimbraServiceEnabled. (Make sure you use the hostname configured in zmlocalconfig for these queries).
If you get ldap credential errors, kill every zimbra process dead (kill -9) and reinstall.
[quote user="rmvg"]



Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: STARTING ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: start service ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: start app ldap

Sep 23 07:55:32 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: Starting child ldap: (20050923075532)

Sep 23 07:59:03 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: STARTING services

Sep 23 07:59:03 canmail zimbramon[3177]: 3177:info: Doing startup

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4933]: 4933:info: Zimbra Monitor startup: 4933

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4933]: 4933:info: Process 21572 not found - removing /opt/zimbra/zimbramon/FIFO/zm.pid

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4953]: 4953:info: Status monitor startup

Sep 23 07:59:04 canmail zimbramon[4954]: 4954:info: Creating soap server on port 7777[/QUOTE]
ldap didn't start, it seems. Try reinstalling after kill -9 on all running zimbra processes.

[rmvg]

zmlocalconfig zimbra_server_hostname

zimbra_server_hostname = mx1.canmail.org
[zimbra@canmail ~]$ zmprov gs | grep zimbraServiceEnabled
does this mean that no zimbra services are running?
zmprov gas

ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: getDirectContext) (cause: javax.naming.CommunicationException mx1.canmail.org:389)

[zimbra@canmail ~]$
oooooo that looks bad
judging from the above commands there is nothing to kill??
how do i find what to kill I have done zmcontrol stop

doesnt that kill everthing also i have tried reinstalling several times please help
p.s.

how do set the hostname of my fedora machine ie in FreeBSD it is in /etc/rc.conf

hostname = mail1.computerking.ca

[marcmac]

[quote user="rmvg"]zmlocalconfig zimbra_server_hostname

zimbra_server_hostname = mx1.canmail.org
[zimbra@canmail ~]$ zmprov gs | grep zimbraServiceEnabled

does this mean that no zimbra services are running?

[/QUOTE]

No - you want gas to list the servers:

zmprov gas
and gs to get the attributes:

zmprov gs mx1.canmail.org | grep zimbraServiceEnabled

[quote user="rmvg"]
zmprov gas

ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: getDirectContext) (cause: javax.naming.CommunicationException mx1.canmail.org:389)

[zimbra@canmail ~]$
oooooo that looks bad
judging from the above commands there is nothing to kill??

[/QUOTE]

No, you want to run:

ps auxww | grep zimbra

[quote user="rmvg"]

how do i find what to kill I have done zmcontrol stop

doesnt that kill everthing also i have tried reinstalling several times please help
p.s.

how do set the hostname of my fedora machine ie in FreeBSD it is in /etc/rc.conf

hostname = mail1.computerking.ca[/QUOTE]
edit /etc/sysconfig/network

[rmvg]

[quote user="marcmac"]No - you want gas to list the servers:

zmprov gas
zmprov gas

ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: getDirectContext) (cause: javax.naming.CommunicationException mx1.canmail.org:389)
and gs to get the attributes:

zmprov gs mx1.canmail.org | grep zimbraServiceEnabled
zmprov gs mx1.canmail.org | grep zimbraServiceEnabled

ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: getDirectContext) (cause: javax.naming.CommunicationException mx1.canmail.org:389)

[zimbra@mx1 root]$


No, you want to run:

ps auxww | grep zimbra
zimbra@mx1 root]$ ps auxww | grep zimbra

zimbra 3797 0.0 1.4 13092 9468 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/ bin/zmmon

zimbra 3817 0.0 1.4 13220 9484 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/ bin/zmmon

zimbra 3818 0.0 1.5 13620 9980 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/ bin/zmmon

root 11794 0.0 0.1 4320 1144 pts/1 S 12:18 0:00 su zimbra

zimbra 11795 0.0 0.2 4296 1380 pts/1 S 12:18 0:00 bash

zimbra 12691 0.0 0.1 2376 780 pts/1 R+ 12:22 0:00 ps auxww

zimbra 12692 0.0 0.1 3724 672 pts/1 R+ 12:22 0:00 grep zimbra

[zimbra@mx1 root]$ ps auxww | grep zimbra

zimbra 3797 0.0 1.4 13092 9468 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/bin/zmmon

zimbra 3817 0.0 1.4 13220 9484 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/bin/zmmon

zimbra 3818 0.0 1.5 13620 9980 ? S 11:48 0:00 perl /opt/zimbra/bin/zmmon

root 11794 0.0 0.1 4320 1144 pts/1 S 12:18 0:00 su zimbra

zimbra 11795 0.0 0.2 4296 1380 pts/1 S 12:18 0:00 bash

zimbra 12693 0.0 0.1 2380 784 pts/1 R+ 12:22 0:00 ps auxww

zimbra 12694 0.0 0.1 3728 660 pts/1 S+ 12:22 0:00 grep zimbra

[zimbra@mx1 root]$
ps auxww | grep zimbra

root 14964 0.0 0.1 3728 648 pts/1 S+ 12:34 0:00 grep zimbra
OK gonna reinstall now
upgrade went well know errors, hope all my users are still there
emoving deployed webapp directories

Installing packages
zimbra-core......zimbra-core-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_.i386.rpm...done

zimbra-ldap......zimbra-ldap-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_.i386.rpm...done

zimbra-mta......zimbra-mta-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_.i386.rpm...done

zimbra-snmp......zimbra-snmp-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_.i386.rpm...done

zimbra-store......zimbra-store-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_.i386.rpm...done

Post installation configuration
Restoring existing configuration file from /tmp/saveconfig.15015/config.save...done

Setting the hostname to mx1.canmail.org...done

Setting the LDAP host to mx1.canmail.org...done

Starting ldap...done

Adding mx1.canmail.org to zimbraMailHostPool in default COS...done

Initializing mta config...done

Configuring SNMP...done

Setting services on mx1.canmail.org...done

Setting up SSL...done

Starting servers...Calling GetServiceInfoRequest (mx1.canmail.org)
RESPONSE: (Zimbra::Mon::serviceInfo)

host

ip 68.146.204.153

name mx1.canmail.org

done
Installation complete!
Operations logged to /tmp/install.log.15015
STILL BROKEN CANNOT LOGIN
COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -s | sed -e "s/ = (.*)/='1'/" > /tmp/saveconfig.15015/config.save

COMMAND: zmcontrol shutdown

Calling ShutDownRequest (mx1.canmail.org)
Preparing packages for installation...

zimbra-core-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_

ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: getDirectContext) (cause: javax.naming.CommunicationException localhost:389)

Preparing packages for installation...

zimbra-ldap-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_

Preparing packages for installation...

zimbra-mta-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_

Preparing packages for installation...

zimbra-snmp-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_

Preparing packages for installation...

zimbra-store-3.0.M1_21.FC3-20050920155949_

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e av_notify_domain=''

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e av_notify_user=''

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e ldap_host='mx1.canmail.org'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e ldap_port='389'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e ldap_root_password='cygCEkaCmdFlP99IDdQnverA'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_bind_address='localhost'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_data_directory='${zimbra_home}/logger/db/data'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_directory='${zimbra_home}/logger/mysql'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_mycnf='${zimbra_home}/conf/my.logger.cnf'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_pidfile='${zimbra_home}/logger/db/mysql.pid'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_port='3307'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e logger_mysql_socket='${zimbra_home}/logger/db/mysql.sock'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_bind_address='localhost'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_data_directory='${zimbra_db_directory}/data'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_directory='${zimbra_home}/mysql'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_innodb_log_buffer_size='8M'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_innodb_log_file_size='104857600'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_innodb_thread_concurrency='200'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_max_connections='200'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_memory_percent='40'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_mycnf='${zimbra_home}/conf/my.cnf'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_pidfile='${zimbra_db_directory}/mysql.pid'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_port='3306'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_read_buffer_size='1048576'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_root_password='c0OYWQ6YTCediq7JRL9SyeWKsr98Iam7'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_socket='${zimbra_db_directory}/mysql.sock'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_sort_buffer_size='1048576'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e mysql_table_cache='500'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e smtp_destination='none'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e smtp_notify='no'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e smtp_source='none'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e snmp_notify='no'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e snmp_trap_host='mx1.canmail.org'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e spell_hostname=''

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e spell_port='80'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e spell_retry_interval_millis='60000'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e ssl_allow_untrusted_certs='true'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e stats_img_folder='${zimbra_home}/zimbramon/rrdtool/work'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_directory='${zimbra_home}/tomcat'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_java_heap_memory_percent='30'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_java_home='${zimbra_java_home}'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_java_options='-client -XX:NewRatio=2'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_keystore='${tomcat_directory}/conf/keystore'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e tomcat_pidfile='${zimbra_log_directory}/tomcat.pid'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_db_directory='${zimbra_home}/db'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_extension_directory='${zimbra_home}/lib/ext'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_home='/opt/zimbra'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_index_directory='${zimbra_home}/index'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_java_home='${zimbra_home}/java'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_ldap_password='FT9X4rXZLi21fVAXyICzU5UE_e'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_ldap_userdn='uid=zimbra,cn=admins,cn=zimbra'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_log4j_properties='${zimbra_home}/conf/log4j.properties'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_log_directory='${zimbra_home}/log'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_mysql_password='B9QqD1ng0xYUFsFLT.7w7qu_106TLpXS'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_mysql_user='zimbra'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_server_hostname='mx1.canmail.org'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_services='ldap mailbox mta antivirus antispam snmp'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -f -e zimbra_store_directory='${zimbra_home}/store'

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e zimbra_server_hostname=mx1.canmail.org

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e ldap_host=mx1.canmail.org

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e ldap_port=389

COMMAND: ldap start

db_recover: Ignoring log file: /opt/zimbra/openldap-data/log.0000000001: magic number 0, not 40988

db_recover: Invalid log file: log.0000000001: Invalid argument

db_recover: PANIC: Invalid argument

db_recover: PANIC: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery

db_recover: DB_ENV->open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery

Started slapd: pid 19011

COMMAND: zmldapapplyldif

slapd already running: pid 19011

adding new entry "cn=zimbra"
adding new entry "cn=admins,cn=zimbra"
config,cn=zimbra"
adding new entry "cn=(GMT-05.00) Indiana (East),cn=timezones,cn=config,cn=zimbra"
adding new entry "cn=(GMT-04.00) Atlantic Time (Canada),cn=timezones,cn=config,cn=zimbra"
snip


modifying entry "cn=all,cn=mime,cn=config,cn=zimbra"
COMMAND: id=`zmprov gs mx1.canmail.org | grep zimbraId | awk '{print $2}'`; for i in `zmprov gc default | grep zimbraMailHostPool | sed 's/zimbraMailHostPool: //'`; do host="$host zimbraMailHostPool $i"; done; zmprov mc default $host zimbraMailHostPool $id

ERROR: account.NO_SUCH_SERVER (no such server: mx1.canmail.org)

zmprov [cmd] [args ...]
CreateAccount(ca) {name@domain} {password} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

DeleteAccount(da) {name@domain|id}

GetAccount(ga) {name@domain|id}

GetAllAccounts(gaa) [-v] [{domain}]

GetAllAdminAccounts(gaaa) [-v]

ModifyAccount(ma) {name@domain|id} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

SetPassword(sp) {name@domain|id} {password}

AddAccountAlias(aaa) {name@domain|id} {alias@domain}

RemoveAccountAlias(raa) {name@domain|id} {alias@domain}

SetAccountCos(sac) {name@domain|id} {cos-name|cos-id}

SearchAccounts(sa) [-v] {ldap-query} [limit {limit}] [offset {offset}] [sortBy {attr}] [attrs {a1,a2...}] [sortAscending 0|1*] [applyCos [0|1*] [domain {domain}]

SearchGal(sg) {domain} {name}

RenameAccount(ra) {name@domain|id} {newName@domain}
CreateDomain(cd) {domain} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

DeleteDomain(dd) {domain|id}

GetDomain(gd) {domain|id}

GetAllDomains(gad) [-v]

ModifyDomain(md) {domain|id} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]
CreateCos(cc) {name} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

DeleteCos(dc) {name|id}

GetCos(gc) {name|id}

GetAllCos(gac) [-v]

ModifyCos(mc) {name|id} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

RenameCos(rc) {name|id} {newName}
CreateServer(cs) {name} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]

DeleteServer(ds) {name|id}

GetServer(gs) {name|id}

GetAllServers(gas) [-v]

ModifyServer(ms) {name|id} [attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]]
GetAllConfig(gacf)

GetConfig(gcf) {name}

ModifyConfig(mcf) attr1 value1 [attr2 value2...]
CreateDistributionList(cdl) {list@domain}

GetAllDistributionLists(gadl) [-v]

GetDistributionList(gdl) {list@domain|id}

DeleteDistributionList(ddl) {list@domain|id}

AddDistributionListMember(adlm) {list@domain|id} {member@domain}

RemoveDistributionListMember(rdlm) {list@domain|id} {member@domain}
exit (quit)

help (?)
COMMAND: /opt/zimbra/libexec/zmmtainit mx1.canmail.org

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e av_notify_user=

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e av_notify_domain=

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e snmp_notify=no

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e smtp_notify=no

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e snmp_trap_host=mx1.canmail.org

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e smtp_source=none

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e smtp_destination=none

COMMAND: zmsnmpinit

creating /opt/zimbra/conf/swatchrc

COMMAND: zmprov ms mx1.canmail.org zimbraServiceInstalled ldap zimbraServiceInstalled mailbox zimbraServiceInstalled mta zimbraServiceInstalled antivirus zimbraServiceInstalled antispam zimbraServiceInstalled snmp

ERROR: account.NO_SUCH_SERVER (no such server: mx1.canmail.org)

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e zimbra_services="ldap mailbox mta antivirus antispam snmp"

COMMAND: zmcreatecert

** Creating CA private key
Generating a 1024 bit RSA private key

..++++++

.....++++++

writing new private key to '/opt/zimbra/ssl/ssl/ca/ca.key'

-----

** Creating CA cert
Signature ok

subject=/C=US/ST=N/A/L=N/A/O=Zimbra Collaboration Suite/CN=mx1.canmail.org

Getting Private key

** Importing CA
Certificate was added to keystore

keytool error: java.io.FileNotFoundException: /opt/zimbra/java/jre/lib/security/cacerts (Permission denied)

** Creating keystore
** Creating server cert request
** Signing cert request
Signature ok

subject=/C=US/ST=NA/L=NA/O=Zimbra/OU=Zimbra/CN=mx1.canmail.org

Getting CA Private Key

Signature ok

subject=/C=US/ST=NA/L=NA/O=Zimbra/OU=Zimbra/CN=mx1.canmail.org

Getting Private key

COMMAND: zmcertinstall mailbox

** Importing server cert
keytool error: java.lang.Exception: Failed to establish chain from reply

COMMAND: zmtlsctl https

COMMAND: zmcertinstall mta /opt/zimbra/ssl/ssl/server/smtpd.crt /opt/zimbra/ssl/ssl/ca/ca.key

** Importing server cert
COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -e ssl_allow_untrusted_certs=true

COMMAND: zmcontrol startup

Calling startup (mx1.canmail.org)
perl /opt/zimbra/bin/zmmon &
RESPONSE: (Zimbra::Mon::serviceInfo)

host

ip 68.146.204.153

name mx1.canmail.org

COMMAND: zmlocalconfig -s > .localconfig.save.15015

COMMAND: zmprov gs mx1.canmail.org > .zmprov.mx1.canmail.org.save.15015

ERROR: account.NO_SUCH_SERVER (no such server: mx1.canmail.org)

COMMAND: zmprov gacf mx1.canmail.org > .zmprov.gacf.save.15015


edit /etc/sysconfig/network[/QUOTE]
thanks just finshed doing that found it on google

[marcmac]

Ok, ldap is not starting.
Until you can get the "ldap start" command to work, you're not going to be able to make this work (you can run it manually, as the zimbra user).
You mention you're upgrading - did you run the migration scripts?
Also, the error says that the ldap redolog files aren't valid. That makes me think that your ldap directory is corrupted, and you may need to reinstall from scratch.

[rmvg]

[quote user="marcmac"]Ok, ldap is not starting.
Until you can get the "ldap start" command to work, you're not going to be able to make this work (you can run it manually, as the zimbra user).
ldap start

slapd already running: pid 3430

[zimbra@mx1 rmvg]$ ldap stop

[zimbra@mx1 rmvg]$ ldap start

db_recover: Ignoring log file: /opt/zimbra/openldap-data/log.0000000001: magic number 0, not 40988

db_recover: Invalid log file: log.0000000001: Invalid argument

db_recover: PANIC: Invalid argument

db_recover: PANIC: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery

db_recover: DB_ENV->open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery

Started slapd: pid 26006
You mention you're upgrading - did you run the migration scripts?
Yes i have added many users
Also, the error says that the ldap redolog files aren't valid. That makes me think that your ldap directory is corrupted, and you may need to reinstall from scratch.[/QUOTE]
NOOOOOOOOOoooo just kidding it sure would be nice to aviod as it would take me several days to set things backup the way they were.